Fear Sparks A Parent’s Instinct

Caitlin K 0:27

That was really where a lot of the fear for me came from. Is like now I have to really do something about this. I have to mama bear, I have to advocate for my child. And I'm really not good at confronting in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Hey there, it's Julie. Welcome to Uncomfy. A lot of us are struggling right now with how to stay open to others when we seem to be living in different realities. I feel like I'm always walking on eggshells with people, but I don't want to give up on connection either. This is a podcast about staying with the moments we usually want to escape. The awkward ones, the tense ones, the ones that can actually teach us something. So let's get on comfy.

Caitlin K 1:13

My hands, I remember my hands just shaking and being so in utter disbelief. You know, what? What are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense. And I just need more information.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Friends, this is Caitlin Kindred. She is a former middle school teacher. She's a mom, and she's co-host of the podcast and blog called How to Be a Grown Up, a Humorous Guide for Moms. Caitlin, thanks for joining me today. I'm excited to hear your stories. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Take us back to that moment then. What had you what was happening? What were you learning that caused so much physical discomfort in that moment?

Caitlin K 1:50

Um, I was on the other line with a parent friend from my son's kindergarten class. And what she said was, hey, my son is telling me that our child's teacher is really using her stern voice with your child, like all the time. And it's and it sounds mean and it's not getting better no matter what my particular child is saying, you know. And that raised a red flag for that parent, and she called me to tell me what was going on. Because if another kindergartener is picking up on that tone, it's probably not a good thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

What's happening for you in your mind then? You mentioned feeling angry, confused, your hands start shaking. What are you thinking might be going on and what your path forward on this might be?

Caitlin K 2:42

I mean, a former teacher myself, you know, I'm thinking there's got to be an explanation for why my child is getting the stern voice all the time, you know? And I'm I'm never a um, my child would never parent, right? I um because one, I've seen it all, and two, my child would and does. So I'm very aware of behaviors that are problematic. And and I would never, you know, deign to think that my child wouldn't. So I'm thinking, you know, what is happening? What can I do to support the teacher? What can I do to advocate for my son? What do I need to do? Who do I need to get involved so that I can figure this out? Because at the time it was February, we we still had several months left of school, and I'm not okay with this treatment continuing or at least not knowing what's going on for the remainder of the school year.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So you moved right into problem solver mode, it sounds like as opposed to like, are you the kind of person who tends to kind of you're willing to go straight into conflict into situations where it feels like it might be a conflict? Or do you tend to be more of an avoider? How do you often approach those things?

Caitlin K 3:54

I am really good at conflict in the shower by myself. Right? I am so good at those arguments and I win every time. But when it comes to actually having the conversation, it's that, you know, people pleasing first daughter ADHD issue of like, I can't do this. It feels too scary. I don't want to have this conversation. And I think that was really where a lot of the fear for me came from is like now I have to really do something about this. This is not one of those situations where I can just let it pass. I have to mama bear, I have to advocate for my child. And I'm really not good at confronting in that situation. So I want to be better at it and maybe someday, but right now it's it's just a very scary thing to tell someone, this is what I'm hearing, this is what I'm feeling, and and we got to fix this now.

A Calm Script For Hard Meetings

SPEAKER_00 4:46

So, how did you go about that then? You felt like you needed to, you needed to get in there and try to address this.

From Behavior Notes To ADHD Flags

Caitlin K 4:51

Yeah. Again, former teacher, there are times when you immediately go directly to the teacher. There are times when you escalate, and there are times when you do both. And I did both. Um, and I didn't escalate to the principal level, I escalated to the counselor level. You know, I sent an email saying to the all of us, saying, This is what I'm hearing, this is what I'd like to understand. And and my go-to line in that situation before the before the actual conflict is, can you help me understand? So that I'm not accusing. All I'm doing is fact-finding. And then in that, I'm also saying, in order to make sure that this is as clear as possible and we can have an action plan for how to fix this, I'd love to set up a meeting with counselor, teacher, myself, and my husband. So I never want to come in, come in hot, you know, with a with a teacher, especially. I would much rather come in and with the with the can you help me understand question. Just I think it puts them more willing to, they're not as defensive, let's put it that way, right? It it takes that defensiveness away a little bit. So, what were you able to figure out? We learned what the behaviors were, the consistency of the behaviors that were definitely putting her on edge and, you know, wearing her patients thin. She wasn't wrong to be frustrated. She was wrong to take out the frustration over and over again day after day. Um, and we did have that conversation of, you know, he needs to know you're on his side in order to really behave the way you want him to, because he's going to be defiant if he thinks he doesn't like you or you don't like him, excuse me. And and then from there, we tried to figure out what the behaviors were and we did a bunch of research and then also got information from the teacher and counselor that were, hey, your child's kind of flagging for neurodivergence, particularly ADHD. So you may want to look into this as something that can help, we can help manage the behaviors with some counseling and with some other support.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Wow. So there was like a lasting impact from this scenario in that your son ultimately was he diagnosed then with ADHD?

Caitlin K 7:07

Yes, he was, yeah. Um, and you know, they typically don't do a diagnosis of ADHD until age six, um, immediately after the school year ended, which he was not quite six, but we were getting close. Um, we did reach out to uh people in town to help us with that evaluation, and then we had to go through the district as well. But we did come back with two different um parties diagnosing him with ADHD. And then um one of the private person that we hired looks at me and says, you know, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree here. ADHD is an inherited disorder. Which one of you parents might it be? And my husband's like, Well, I don't think it's me. And nope, not you. Definitely me. So that led to my own diagnosis at age 38 with my child. Like, so so yes, all that to say, was it a good thing that it happened? Ultimately, sure. Yeah. Because it led to a better understanding of myself and of my child.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

What was that like for you to get this diagnosis so late in your life? He's six, you're 38. What effect did that have?

Caitlin K 8:15

Um, primarily validation. When you are neurodivergent, when you do have, you know, mental health concerns, you do have this sense that like something's different about me. Why am I this way? And I sort of had that feeling my whole life. So to get an evaluation, and I I was just booking the appointment for the evaluation and having an initial conversation to say, hey, I'd like to have a further evaluation. And the evaluator goes, No, no, no, no, we're 10 minutes in, and I can already tell just you are definitely someone with this issue, and it's severe, incredibly validating, right?

Adult ADHD Diagnosis And Validation

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Just, oh, it makes so much sense. Like, what came what what clicked together for you? What were some of the things that maybe you had struggled with or known about yourself, but didn't make sense until you got that, those letters?

Caitlin K 9:03

The teacher life is very, especially at the middle school level, is very regimented. There is a set period of the day where this happens and this happens and this happens, and then you learn to develop, like, you know, when I have this off period, I'm gonna plan. And when I have this off period, I'm gonna actually use a restroom for the first time in days. And and when I have, you know, and when I have this class, I know what to expect. And then I transitioned out of that career and I became a state, like a work from home marketer in the ed tech space, and all of a sudden my time wasn't regimented the same way, and I couldn't get anything done. I couldn't function, I didn't know how to manage my time. I was very um upset about my inability to get things done. And as I'm looking back, I was thinking, like, well, I got my master's degree. How did I get my master's degree? I couldn't read the text in a way that made sense. I was constantly reading and rereading and skipping things, and it was all because of this mind-racing issue, right? I don't have hyperactivity of the physical sense, it's in my brain, I can't slow things down. It was a very eye-opening moment to hear like these are symptoms of ADHD in women, and you have, you know, 11 out of 13 are real for you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

So the mind racing, what else? Name a few other things that you now, at least now that you've able to name it, you are able to find ways to kind of mitigate or cope.

Time Blindness And Hobby Hopping

Caitlin K 10:27

Probably my favorite one, kind of call it like a superpower, right? Is this hobby hopping, fixating on one thing, becoming obsessed with that one thing, unfortunately spending the money to participate in that one thing and then abandoning it three weeks later after you've spent hundreds of dollars. But then you kind of are like, I'm kind of good at this, but I'm not so good that I need to keep it going. So blah. And then you just sort of leave it. And then, and then all of a sudden you'll find it again. And you're and you're like, oh my gosh, this was so fun. I'm and so that's one of my favorites. It sort of makes you good at a little bit of everything, right? That jack of all trades phrase. But, you know, other things like hyperfixating on a certain thing that might be driving me crazy and time blindness is is a really big one for me. Um, not knowing how much time has passed when I've been doing my makeup or when I've been working on a project or getting ready in the morning. And my, you know, my husband's like, we gotta go. We have to leave in three minutes. And I'm thinking, oh, now's the right time to shower, right? Like there's just no, there, there's no concept of time for me. It's either too fast or too slow, or or that's probably the the most um debilitating one. Maybe not debilitating. I don't know if that would be the word. It would, it's maybe frustrating to be disruptive for sure. Around other people to like my husband isn't like it. My husband hates that one. Yeah. How many kids do you have? Do you have just three? I have one. I have one. Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

So how yeah, like talk to me about parenting as a neurodivergent mom, then knowing this about yourself and also that your son has maybe a different manifestation of it.

Caitlin K 12:08

Yeah, I think his is actually probably really similar. Um, I would say it's probably internal for him too. He's constantly spinning and he can spiral pretty quickly. And one of the nice things is for me to be able to say, hey, like that's so relatable. I definitely understand how you feel. Like, I definitely understand how it's frustrating to have someone remind you how much time is left before we have to go before school starts. Um, or I understand how frustrating it is when you're so good at so many things for whatever reason, but you're not good at this right away and you want to give up on it. You know, any of those things. It's very nice to be able to look at him and say, This is not you. This is a part of you. This is your ADHD. You are not this. You are like this is a behavior that's caused by this. And so, one, it's teaching him to advocate for himself, but two, there's just he's not alone. He doesn't have to, you know, look back and go, Well, none of my parents understood, right? Because my mother is amazing and never ever ever would have guessed that this is me. She's like, You are so high functioning, you were so good at everything, you did so well in school, which is like hallmark characteristics of ADHD and girls, but just never knew that that was what was going on in my head because I didn't tell her because I thought it was weird. Right. So now my son can go, mom, this is this is what I'm thinking, or this is what's going on, and just have be validated and be able to relate to someone he's close to.

Parenting With Shared Neurodivergence

SPEAKER_00 13:42

What is hard right now, do you think? I mean, you can't speak for all moms, but um, for the moms that you interact with and uh the moms that you speak to on your podcast, like what are what is particularly challenging for women with small children right now in America?

Caitlin K 14:03

I mean, in this this current vacuum of of what we're in, the hardest thing is uh dealing with uh the news, the external around my family, the community uh news, and then turning around and being normal, right? I have to deal with the political climate of our country while simultaneously peeling string cheese for my little one and acting like it's totally normal to do that when nothing around me is normal. That is so challenging. And and navigating, you know, the my own bandwidth with all of this other stuff and needing to be an advocate, but also needing to advocate for my children at the same time in their everyday life, that's a lot. It's a lot for moms to take on. So, you know, that's probably the number one thing I'm hearing across channels.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

What's something that's helped you or worked for you in terms of, you know, not not retreating into your bubble or putting your head in the sand, tuning out, but and and but also not allowing it to kind of derail your emotional and psychological capacity that you need to be there for your kid and your husband.

News Boundaries And Real Self Care

Caitlin K 15:24

Right. And I I mean I don't want to sit here and say that I'm really good at that all the time, right? Because that's not my case. And then the and part of the reason I do the podcast I do is that I need help. I am trying to learn how to be a grown-up. And so these are things that I want to learn more about so that I can navigate all the things that are going on in my life. But that said, I really do believe in setting boundaries around those things, um, setting times of day that you're gonna look at that kind of content. This is my 15 minutes of news. I'm done. And then finding those little hobbies that bring you joy again, whatever they may be, if that's crocheting, if it's reading a book, but just making calendar time and booking it on the family calendar so that nobody else gets to bother you. Your partner doesn't get to say, well, this is the time that we nope, this is my reading time, this is my crochet time, whatever. So that you can have that escape, that disassociation that you need to have, which is, you know, self-care. Those hobbies are self-care. So find a way to do those again. And I also highly recommend like when you for like a sensory experience, if you can get one of like some of those um battery-operated candles, put them in your bathroom and take a shower in the dark with just the candles on. That is my favorite thing to do to calm down when I when I'm completely overstimulated. It's a really big help.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

So love that trick. Caitlin Kindred is a mom. She's a former middle school teacher, and she's co-host of How to Be a Grown Up, a Humorous Guide for Moms, which you can find anywhere you get your podcasts. Caitlin, thanks for sharing your insights today. I appreciate it.

Caitlin K 17:03

It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Love this conversation. I'll come back anytime.

Council Of Moms Podcast Plug

SPEAKER_00 17:08

And thank you for getting uncomfy with us today. Is there a moment when you leaned into the challenge, the discomfort, the conflict, if you're an avoider, and it actually led to something you're really glad for? I would love to hear that story. Email uncomfy at byu.edu. Or find us on social media to continue the conversation. We are at uncomfy.podcast on Instagram. Uncomfy is a BYU radio podcast. Samuel Benson produces it, and the team includes Hobin Kim and Sam Payne. Our theme music was composed by Kelsey Nay. I'm Julie Rose. Can't wait to get Uncomfy with you again next week. Julie here, just one more thing before you go. If you're a mom or if you know a mom that could use a little backup, there's a new podcast from BYU Radio you'll want to hear about. It's called The Council of Moms, and it's all about the real, messy, beautiful moments of motherhood, from picky eaters and bedtime battles to the deeper stuff like anxiety and raising resilient kids. The show is honest, funny, full of heart. These are moms who get it, and they're showing up to support each other and support you. So if you're feeling a little overbooked and underappreciated, this might be just the boost you need. You can find Council of Moms on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you listen.