Welcome And Why Media Literacy

Caitlin K 0:27

Hey friends, we're so glad that you're here. Welcome to How to Be a Grown Up, the how-to show for moms who need a media cleanse, like me. I'm Caitlin and Ariela's here today. So Ariela Monte, author of Roots in Inc. and the new novel Bound by Ink, which I still haven't read yet, but I'm this, I'm so ready. Okay. And she's a cactus bursting with glitter instead of spines. Oh, I have plenty of spines, though. I mean, you can have both if you want. Yeah. I feel like that's more appropriate you to have both. Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's true. Absolutely. Today, well, hold on, let me back up. We have been talking about civic engagement lately, like meaningful ways to get involved and doing so in a way that honors your time and setting boundaries about how you engage so that you can maintain your bandwidth because this is a marathon, not a sprint. But here's something we have yet to touch on. You can't act wisely if you have bad information. Right? So that said, today we're talking about media literacy. But before we do that, I just want to make sure that you're following both Ariella and I on threads. Are you doing that? At CKNGK Podcast and Ariela, tell everybody your handle because I'll mess it up, even though I know what it is.

Ariella Monti 1:49

Ariela underscore Monti.

Credentials And Source List

Caitlin K 1:51

Yes. Very easy one. Just find her there. So let's get to it. Pick it off for me.

Ariella Monti 2:00

All right. So aside from writing spicy romance fantasy books, before that, I was a journalist. And before that, I haven't got a degree in media studies. So media literacy is very important. I put a whole bunch of sources in the notes, including some of my favorite media literacy creators that are on TikTok and they have Patreons and all that kind of fun stuff. Um, they are actual professors and PhDs who work in this field, and I have learned a ton from them post the college years, sure. Which is a very long time ago.

Caitlin K 2:46

So all that to say you are qualified to speak on this topic.

Ariella Monti 2:51

I feel like I'm I'm qualified to speak on this this topic. Okay. And I I don't I don't say that lightly.

Caitlin K 3:00

No, but this is a serious topic. I think we Yeah, no, no, you're qualified to speak on it, and you're also recommending other sources. There's a list of them in the show notes, but things like you know, PBS, JSTOR, which is a research database, and then those creators you have Dr. Gabriel Cruz, Abby Richards, and Professor Casey Feisler is I think it's Feisler. Feisler, yeah. I think so too. They're all listed in the show notes. You can go check out their resources. All of those are there. And then, of course, there'll be more information for the blog post for this episode.

Ariella Monti 3:29

So we're gonna talk about media literacy basics today. This is not gonna be like my introduction to communication theory class that I took my sophomore year of college. This is gonna be very basic. I am also not nearly as entertaining as my leather clad professor was that year. Nice. Um leather clad professor? I'm kind of here for it. Which, yeah, which was not common back in 2002. Here for it. Instead, you have me in sweatpants and a tank tape.

What Media Literacy Means

Caitlin K 4:00

It's all good. I mean, hey, this if nothing else, leather clad professor sounds like something that you could use in an in one of your novels moving forward. I mean now I have to. Yep. You're welcome. I've got to write it down. That's poor man's trademark right here on that. Okay.

Ariella Monti 4:15

So media literacy is an extremely large umbrella that encompasses the content that we consume through social media, the news, but also movies, TV, and books. And much of media literacy is developing the critical skills that they tried to teach us on in, you know, all those humanities classes that we took, like English and art and history that I used to teach, where I'd be like, critical thinking is important.

Caitlin K 4:42

Yes, right. Like, oh my god, this stuff is applicable to real life. Like, oh, look at that. There's context around the information that we're learning. No way. Shocker. Yeah, yeah, gotcha.

Ariella Monti 4:55

Okay. So a simplified version of the definition of media literacy from the National Association for Media Literacy Education is the skills necessary to both comprehend the message we receive and how to use those same tools to distribute our own message. And so the goal is to be able to ask questions and make sound judgments rooted in facts and evidence. A skill that needs developing in the present. Got it. Okay. Yes, very much, very much so. Um, because this is such a huge topic, I am just gonna focus on social media and online content. Um, all of this information is applicable to teens and children as well. It's very basic stuff that can be taught to them fairly easily. I actually pulled some of this from curriculum that's posted on the PBS website that is made specifically for teens. So it was already broken down kind of into very like manageable, easy to understand pieces. Love it. And since there's a lot of overlap, these fundamental skills can be applied to almost anything, almost everything, including this episode.

Caitlin K 6:12

Nice.

Ariella Monti 6:13

Yeah.

Caitlin K 6:13

We've told people we're fact adjacent. Am I gonna get in trouble? Right.

Ariella Monti 6:18

No, you know what? This is the like it's what we're gonna talk about sources later, but we always put the sources in that we like show people where we're getting that information so that they can go and check it themselves. And that is like at the end of the day, is something that like that's what we want them to do, like and be able to do.

Caitlin K 6:39

There's that, I mean, it's it's two, it's twofold, right? Like, I want people to know where I'm getting my information from, but I also don't want to be told that I'm not providing credit where credit is due. Right.

Ariella Monti 6:50

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Misinformation Versus Disinformation

Caitlin K 6:51

So it is, I mean, the intellectual property part of my family would be very upset if I did not do those things. But I do, I do, yeah, I do think it's important to put those there because I do want people to say, like, this resource I would not recommend using anymore, or whatever it is. Like, I want to be told that when that happens. So absolutely, yes.

Ariella Monti 7:11

Absolutely. So, to get started, when we talk about misinformation and disinformation, is to understand that those words are not synonyms, they are often used interchangeably, but misinformation and disinformation are two totally different things in the media literacy. Caught it. So, misinformation is false information that spreads regardless of intent. So it can be malicious, but it's not always. So this might be like accidentally sharing a news article from 2015, but you because you thought it was new. Or the time a bunch of years ago when I almost retweeted an article from the onion um because I was too tired to notice the source or grasp that it was very obviously satire.

Caitlin K 8:03

Honestly, though, with the onion, sometimes they're just playing with fire, like it's so close to feeling true. So I mean at first glance, like I can honestly say I don't blame you for exactly.

Ariella Monti 8:16

Exactly. Yeah. Um on the flip side, it could be something like presenting information without the full context. Okay. Like, say, you know, you see a post about how nine out of ten children at Sunshine School can't read, but you don't they don't mention that nine of the ten kids are under the age of five.

Caitlin K 8:36

By the way, there's probably a school named Sunshine School somewhere. We don't know. That's not we like, sorry to them. We're just not as an example. Sunshine and farts.

Ariella Monti 8:45

There's no school called Sunshine and Farts. We're good. Yeah, I am sure your students are your five-year-olds. Right.

Caitlin K 8:50

I bet they're excellent, wonderful kids. Readers.

Ariella Monti 8:53

Right. Yep. Disinformation is the purposeful spreading of misinformation. So this is knowingly sharing false information for the express purpose of eliciting a response. So misinformation is false information that kind of goes around regardless of the intent. So sometimes it's legitimate mistakes and sometimes it's purposeful mistakes, but disinformation it has a real malicious intent behind it. Got it.

Caitlin K 9:26

Okay. I'm I'm just forming judgmental thoughts in my head right now. So I'm gonna ask that you please proceed with the information giving of this part of the podcast.

Ariella Monti 9:39

Okay. So common disinformation techniques, because this, like I said, this disinformation is intentional. So there are like there are guidelines and techniques to do this. Great. Lovely. A playbook, if you will, for how to do this.

Caitlin K 9:57

Right. Excellent. Yeah.

Ariella Monti 9:59

So this is what you are gonna typically see on social some of the stuff that you're gonna typically see on social media on some platforms more than others. Um using an existing video or image and claiming that it came from somewhere else. So, an example, a user shares a photo of a car on fire, claiming a protest in California turned into a riot, but the photo is actually from several years ago and it was taken in France.

The Disinformation Playbook

Caitlin K 10:29

Ooh. You know what I am starting to see? Uh this is probably like something we'll get to, but I'm starting to see community notes being added to things like that, or people commenting, like, hey, this picture is actually from here. If you do a quick Google search, you'll see where it came from. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Ariella Monti 10:45

Okay. Yeah, so I got I like applied or to be part of the meta's. I have feelings about meta, but more judgmental.

Caitlin K 10:56

More judgment coming, but you're like, yeah, I got it. Yeah, like I'm with you.

Ariella Monti 10:59

They they made the mistake of giving me access to the community notes so that I can leave community notes. And honestly, lack of bandwidth is the only reason why I don't do it more than I ought, more than I should. I get it. Um, but yes. Yep. No. My thoughts for that are for another show.

Caitlin K 11:17

Judges and marketer. I got you. Yep. Okay.

Ariella Monti 11:21

Um, another technique is staging the actions or events or manipulating the images of those same actions or events. So a photo of a rally is cropped to make it look like thousands of people were there, but the full image only shows like a few hundred.

Caitlin K 11:40

More judgment, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Ariella Monti 11:43

Um, and this is what we're we're seeing a lot more of is AI or Photoshop created or altered images. So images that don't even exist that are, you know, being spread as though they are real. Um, so a post claiming that your town mayor threw puppies into the river, and uh there's a generated image of your mayor throwing a box of puppies into the river.

Caitlin K 12:10

Like it's not funny, but I'm cracking the puppies. Like, who does this? Right. Who does this kind of stuff? Like people do that.

Ariella Monti 12:18

It's so uh I you spend five minutes on Facebook, and I bet you I will now see a video of a politician throwing puppies in a river.

Caitlin K 12:29

I mean, oh my god. So there that's a that's a huge huge It's huge. That's such a problem right now, and not like it even happens with like it'll be like some feel-good video, right? It'll be like, look at all of these sweet, look at the bobcat playing with the kitten, and it's like supposed to be cute, and everybody's like, oh my gosh, it's adorable. And then you're like, oh wait, it's AI slop, right?

Ariella Monti 12:51

So right, you can't right. Like now I see if if it's a if it's an animal video that doesn't come from a zoo or like a legitimate rescue, I'm like, is this real?

Caitlin K 13:03

Yeah, on that note, if you're not following the shed aquarium, you should, just because it's the most precious account ever. I love the shed aquarium. Okay, next step, anymore?

Ariella Monti 13:13

Uh one more. So memeable graphics and anecdotes. So, like you've seen these, they're like the graphic with a quick emotional statement that's very easily shared. And usually, you know, the person sharing this like, share if you agree, or share if you hate so and so. And the thing to the way to get me to not do something is to tell me to do it. And so even if I agree with it, like it could be like, share if you love puppies, and it'd be like, No, I love puppies, but I'm not sharing this.

Caitlin K 13:44

So how I don't know if you're gonna get into this, but I'm curious, like memeable graphics. Like people love memes, but are you saying that they fall under the category of disinformation or or they can okay? They can fall.

Ariella Monti 13:57

Like, I'll have to see if I can find a good example for the for the blog post. They're they usually are made up of false information, false photos, you know, so it might be like an infographic that has false information on it with a false picture.

Caitlin K 14:19

Okay.

Ariella Monti 14:20

So that's it's kind of like a a collection of fake stuff in one easily shareable image.

Caitlin K 14:29

That makes more sense. I I have this weird idea that like if we really want, you know, because like some people's when they become a meme, their lives are impacted so dramatically in a positive and or negative way, right? Like my thought was like, what if we use we make those faces the AI slob, right? Like a meme as an AI face, if it's just like you know, dumpster fire around you, like that's one thing. Or like the cringe face guy, like that would be different to me than what you're describing, which is like actual false information that's intended to mislead people. Uh right. That's absolutely yeah.

Ariella Monti 15:09

It's not like you know, when somebody posts not like the the memes that you post in reaction to the to like rage bait, and now you're you know, posting like I take it back, I don't know where I was going with that.

Caitlin K 15:27

Leaving that in anywhere. It's it's like it this, but this is a perfect example of how this is a very gray area when it comes to social media. Like this is oh yeah, this is why we do have to be so careful because there is such a again gray area of where things could be right or wrong or intended to be one thing. And you know, it it's just this that's why just it's so important that we talk about this, especially for parents, like needing to know what to do for their kids and frankly for themselves, because there's plenty of misinformed parents.

Ariella Monti 16:06

And that's the thing, just from the research that I have been doing for this episode, like there is a lot of there's a lot of school curriculum and there's a lot of stuff out there for teens. So I feel like teens are getting this information. You know, they are getting, they are being maybe not taught to the level that they should, but they are getting this information.

Spotting AI And Altered Media

Caitlin K 16:33

And their parents, in some places, they are. I'm gonna tell you. You know what I mean? Like as someone who used to write social emotional learning content for three grade levels, I can tell you that yes, there are some places that are adopting, excuse me, adopting curriculum that is meant to give this and even and widely available free curriculum that is meant to provide this information. But whether or not it is taught by the teachers, whether or not the school has the ability to do it, there's a whole lot of lot of reasons why as parents we need to adopt this sort of education and teaching for our kids because we don't know if they're getting it at school. They might tell you there's a you know how many kids come home and they're like, today we talked about media literacy. Like they're not doing that. So it just needs to be reinforced or taught the first time. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, totally, absolutely. I just see a lot of misinformation coming from adults. That's so and the honest, let's be clear. There's a very good chance if you're listening to this podcast, you're not one of the people who's like bought into these, you know, sources that are just not regularly posting what's actually going on. And and and that's fine, but maybe there's an opportunity here for you to support the people in your life who you know are not on the right path with their media literacy.

Ariella Monti 18:06

So that's a good segue for you know, when you see this stuff, you know, what can you do? So before firing off an angry reply to the rage bait, or if even sharing in agreement, pause. Just stop. And this is a question that I got from Dr. Gabriel Cruz. He is a media literacy uh professor in North Carolina. I am blanking on the school that he teaches at at the moment, but it's one of the schools in he's a university professor.

Caitlin K 18:45

He it's he he's at least not dumb when it comes to this topic. And his uh you put his social media material in the show so people can take a look.

How To Verify Before Sharing

Ariella Monti 18:54

So in one of his videos, he I don't remember if it was a video or if it was a podcast that he has, he said, Do I have more feelings than facts about this issue? So when you see something online, whether it be a post, a picture, a video, and it elicits an emotion because a lot of disinformation content is meant to evoke an emotional response. It's rage bait, it's meant to make you angry or get you fired up in some way, but it's also to get people arguing, even if they generally agree with each other. Ask yourself do I have more feelings than facts about uh this content? And if you have more feelings than facts, look for the facts before you start firing off information, before you start fire firing off a reply or sharing it with people. So how do we do that? The first thing is does the information include a source? If if it does include a source, check the source. Sure. Does the information match the source material? That's like the easiest one to do. If it doesn't, you could do a reverse image search. See if you can find that same image and does a source for the image exist? Does the information match the original source? Are there other visuals from that event? So if you're talking about a protest, a riot, a you know, natural disaster, very often there's going to be multiple sources of images from this event. There isn't gonna just be like one person. Yeah, yeah. Right. You're not gonna have one person taking pictures at a protest. There's going to be lots of pictures from that protest. So try to find other visuals from that event. When you search, you can always search the event name and then fact check.

Caitlin K 21:05

So you could say something like Well, going back to your example from earlier, California protest fact check. Right. And you would put in the date of like a rel a recent date, like you know, exactly. Narrow it down by like the month or the week or whatever, March, whatever. Yep. Do it that way and and see what else you get.

Ariella Monti 21:23

Exactly. Because it's very possible, like if there's misinformation or disinformation going around about it, it's very likely that a reputable news outlet has already looked into the claim and has already debunked it. You might see words like, couldn't independently verify. So, like I listen to a lot of NPR, and especially when they're covering stuff that happens in Gaza or Ukraine, you know, they might say, you know, NPR could not independently verify this information, which means they had enough information to go to press with it, but they were not, they, those reporters reporting it, were not able to source that information for themselves.

Caitlin K 22:08

Themselves. Okay, I see what you're saying.

Ariella Monti 22:11

When you hear something like that, be prepared to have to get updated information. And so you don't spread misinformation because new information came out. Look for inconsistencies when when you have, especially when you have an image. AI images are getting better, but they're still not great with things like patterns, logical placements of things, and background details. In my, I'm in a writing Discord, and we have a channel specifically for I think we call it AI nonsense. So this way nobody ends up getting scammed. And like we will zoom in on these pictures, and you can even the ones that look really, really good. If you look in the background or if you look for inconsistencies, you do tend to find them.

Caitlin K 23:03

Hands. If there's people in it, look at their hands. Like that's a big tell for me. It's not always a tell, but if the hand is like in the background, it's gonna have something weird about it, like six fingers, or like there'll be two hands. Like it'll be a weird, not two hands, like everybody who has two hands understands what I'm saying. But what I mean, like there'll be two on one arm, like it'll be a weird, right? It'll be a weird thing. Like there'll be some sort of limb in a strange place. Um the other one you can look at is when they're super smooth, when everything, when the entire video quality is like like you've been airbrushed on Zoom, which is like my favorite thing to do. Let's be very clear about that. I airbrush the heck out of myself and everything. Turn that way up if you haven't already. Um, but that is a real that's a real but if everyone looks like that and it's some video out on the street, right? That's not come on now. That's not real. Yeah, puppies aren't normally that fuzzy and and and glowy in real life. Like, come on.

Ariella Monti 24:02

Yeah. You see lots of stuff in videos, like things disappearing. So, like, if a dog is jumping because it's excited, but then it disappears or never like touches the ground or something like that. For me, videos are harder to spot. I've gotten a lot better with images since we started sharing them.

Caitlin K 24:24

Yeah, there's a creator on threads called, I think her name is Kelsey Comb with an E at the end. And I'll I'll find her and I'll put the link in the blog post. But she has a whole thread on like knowing if a picture is true or or or AI. Um, so and I think she's a photographer, maybe that's where that came from. Um, so yeah, something to something to think about. I'll I'll find that. But it was a good, it was a good thread. I think it was like nine different bits of information and stuff.

Ariella Monti 24:56

Yeah, yeah. And it's it's it's really good for you know spotting things that on first glance like look real, but then when you zoom in, it's it's not it, you know. But speaking of AI, when you're searching, this comes to comes to sourcing. When you're searching, don't use the AI summary and don't use any other AI tool to fact check this stuff because the AI summaries are providing a prediction, mean which means it's pulling from the same material you're trying to fact-check. So it might have it might be pulling from like real material, but it's also pulling from that fake material. And you're gonna have to fact-check your fact check.

Caitlin K 25:43

Yeah.

Sources, Bias, And What’s Missing

Ariella Monti 25:43

So scroll past it, scroll past the the sponsored links and look for reputable sources. So recognizable nonprofits, recognizable news organizations like NPR, the BBC, AP, Reuters. You don't have to necessarily agree with the lean of the news source. So uh like the New York Times uh has been kind of questionable lately, but they are still a reputable news source. Yes, you know, um, it's not like oh, I saw one the other day. It was a political, it was a story about politics from like sports, I don't know, it's like sportsbetting news.com or something like it had nothing to do, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. And it's like, why is this why like doesn't make sense? And of course, official government websites, yeah.

Caitlin K 26:46

So I will say there are times to use that AI summary. And and here's the thing if you do look at the AI summary, you need to pay attention to the links that are like that are there on the side because the AI summary is supposed to provide you with where it got that information from. So you may see that article that you're looking at in that list of sources. So just keep that in mind, right? But also you can go in and verify those for yourself by choosing the AI links that are available to you, you know, and and looking into those sources to see how accurate the AI summary actually is. I'm I'll be the first to say that sometimes that AI summary is a lifesaver for me, like especially when the question is like, mom, how do I know what kind of blue tree frog is blah, blah, blah? Like those are then give me all the AI sources, right? But in but when I'm trying to figure out what's real and what's not in this crazy chaotic dumpster fire that we're surviving in right now, it's not my go-to and it shouldn't be yours either, is the message in this. No, I mean, I have it, I have the AI summaries turned on.

Ariella Monti 27:48

Like I use Vivaldi now as a search as a search engine and as a browser. And it doesn't have any AI summaries because all those same links are going to be like if you scroll by the search engine, yeah. They're all gonna be there. Right, you know, yeah. So it it drives me bananas when somebody's like, hey, cite your source, and then the source that they cite is the summary.

Caitlin K 28:11

Yeah, no. And it's like that that's not that's not what the AI summary is meant to be for. The AI summary is meant to give you a literal summary. It doesn't mean that it's all that material is is fact. It's a summary of all the information aggregated into one list of bullet points, and that could be it could include false information.

Ariella Monti 28:31

So yeah. And specific to you know, sourcing and when you're getting looking at specific articles, blog posts, substacks, make sure you're considering what the author's purpose is or their the main idea of what they're writing about. What information and perspectives are included in that article or blog or substack? And this is this is very important. Whose perspective is missing? Wow, that's that's huge. That's an important one because I mean, let's take something very basic that I would deal with when I was a reporter, like a local reporter. So if you've got a developer who wants to do wants to build something in a neighborhood, and everybody is in favor, everybody who attends the meeting is in favor of this development. But no one at the meeting is from the neighborhood. That perspective is being left out. Absolutely. Yes, that's important. Right. So making not only who are they interviewing, who are they including, but who are they leaving out who should have been involved in this piece of work? Is the content fact, opinion, or something else?

Caitlin K 29:58

Sometimes it's a mix. And someone who's reputable in the field will actually tell you whether or not it's fact or opinion. They'll say, like, this is my opinion based on the facts, right? And and those two things should be clear and probably distinct sections of whatever it is that they're writing. Um, yeah. And that's something to think about because I think a lot of the time people are looking at these opinion pieces, but you know, and they're like, oh, well, that's what so-and-so said, but it they're they're not understanding what makes someone people in that situation.

Ariella Monti 30:31

Exactly. Exactly. And the another important one is the financial interests of the author or the source. So you see this in the wellness industry a lot. People who are like, oh, don't get your kids vaccinated, but then they are selling like $80 bottles of vitamins that have not been regulated by the FDA and probably just contain dust from their basement.

Wellness Grifts And Financial Motives

Caitlin K 30:58

Like dust from their basement? What? I mean, this was big. This was a thing that I kept seeing over and over again when the like big LLM essential oils thing hit the market, right? Like home, what it's not LLM. What's it called? Oh, MLM. Thank you. I like to call them mom things because they were totally targeting like trad wife moms who were who just like needed to support their family with a little bit of extra income. So that's why I always end up calling them MOMs, but MLM. And now I have LLM in my head because of these large language models, which are these AI chat GPT plod things. That's what they're called. Anyway, no, that's that's a big that's a big deal. I would see that a lot with the wellness industry in those, in that context. You're absolutely right.

Ariella Monti 31:45

Yeah, yeah. And you can see that when you're like, especially places like Threads or Twitter, where somebody will start throwing out claims about like birth control or vaccines or the whole milk or pasta. And then like you go to their profile and it's like, wellness, buy my five-step chart to a better poop.

Caitlin K 32:14

Yeah, there's something and also consider who owns the the network too, right? Like the independent journalists don't have to filter their questions of people, you know, and all of that. That that's a very different thing. But when you look at, you know, say a source, look, we'll call it a source, like Twitter, it's been purchased by someone who we know has an intent and an agenda. So keeping that in mind when you look at these sources, like look at who owns the company. That that's a that's gonna be a big part of it too. Right, exactly.

Ariella Monti 32:46

So circling that, how does this all relate to civic engagement? How does this all relate to being active in your community, either on a small micro level or on a much larger level? If you're going to be mad about something, you should be mad about it for the correct reasons. And when I say correct, I mean the factual reason, you know, like it is a lot of fun to send a sternly worded email to your reps in which you include the factual information to dispute the stuff that they said on the news the day before.

Caitlin K 33:27

Jasmine Crockett is my hero because she does that all the time. That girl comes with sources. She is like, let me tell you about this, this, and this. And here's why my opinion is XYZ because of that, that, that. It's amazing.

Ariella Monti 33:40

Yeah, yeah. My senator and my representative will they'll get an email from me about an issue, and then when they write back with their form emails, I usually reply and fact-check their form emails. And I detect a test determined that was a lie. Right. And honestly, it is very cathartic to do that, which is why like I don't I tend not to call my reps, I email them because then I can cite my sources.

Caitlin K 34:16

Yeah, you can take your time to yeah. I usually call because I want someone to listen to what I have to say because I'm usually a rambling and angry, but your your method is better for me. Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's one. It's the it's the petty method. Um but I love a nice petty moment. So let's yes, exactly. Exactly. Just call me Peppermint Petty. I'm all here for it.

Civic Engagement With Receipts

Ariella Monti 34:42

This doing all of this, it makes disinformation less powerful. It basically cuts it off at the knees because it the thing with that gives disinformation power is it being spread. And if it's not being spread, then uh it might just continue to stay in its little bubble, you know, and like right, like you there's not really anything that you can do if it stays in the bubble, but it doesn't need to go outside the bubble, which is sometimes what we see on on social media where a random uh, you know, rage baiter will uh say something to their uh audience of literally like 10 people, but somebody on the other side saw it, shared it like it fit was important, and then it gets blown up. There's no reason for that rage bait uh to uh to get blown up the way that it does, like just block and move on. And along with all of this, it forces people to kind of back up their claims. If you are asking people to cite their sources, you are showing them that you are not gonna tolerate uh just the word vomit that people are throwing out there without any sort of backup. And it teaches you to cite your sources, which uh when we are sharing information and this information is it's not like it's not something that need it's not a source that needs to be uh protected in that you know the people filming the people filming protests and stuff. Obviously, we don't want their names and stuff out there. We don't have to source the names. But if that video was in an NPR article, like you can share the and like share the NPR article when somebody says this happened, like share the the news source that you got it from.

Caitlin K 36:58

Yeah.

Ariella Monti 36:59

Um just make it a habit to kind of always have that information because if if you are putting a claim out there, the burden of proof is on you to back that up, right? You know, yeah.

Caitlin K 37:17

Um if somebody like when people are like, do your own research, like, no, no, you're gonna make this claim, then do your own research, but do it from reputable sources, like understand where, like, that's the whole point is do your own research, but that doesn't mean from you know, Bobby Sue Linda Frank, who makes up her own information about pasta water and how it's effective for you know bug bites. Like dude, you can't just make things up and say I cited this source. No, you didn't. You you found something that agreed with what you were interested in, and then you decided to share that. That's not the same thing, that's not what we mean by citing your source. So I think people have that twisted is like yeah, cite your source and say where you got it from, but then also pay attention to where you got it from. Like that's right. What are you doing? Like, yeah. So that I think that's really the that's what passes. I'm gonna I'm calling this your sniff test, right? Like, you know, it does the information that you're citing actually have factual information with it, right? So and and and man, are we really missing that skill right now in across this country? Holy exactly. Yeah.

Ariella Monti 38:40

I saw a I saw a post a while back and it was from a scientist, and they're like, the scientists and the researchers and the doctors are not hiding anything from you. We are nerds who like to talk about our special interest. And it's like, right, like, trust me, if somebody is interested in a thing, like they probably have sources for it. They probably, I mean, maybe not like off the top of my hat, because as an ADHD person, like my recall can be really, really bad. So I I'm some I am very much the I saw this thing the other day, but then I will go and look for it.

Caitlin K 39:24

Right. But I'm also very selective. I'm like, I saw this one line in this one piece of information, and I know the source was good, but the one line is the only thing I can remember, and that's what's that's what I'm gonna tell you.

Ariella Monti 39:37

That's exactly and like you know, they're you know, we can we can be human about this. They're gonna be, especially if you're neurodivergent, and you know, you we do have you know poor recall, and we will see a thing, and maybe we forget to save it or we share it, and then I will spend literally 15 minutes scrolling through threads trying to find it. Um like we can give people grace while also having higher standards overall.

Algorithms, Rage Bait, And Blocking

Caitlin K 40:10

And when we see and mean maybe start with yourself, hold yourself to that higher standard of media literacy. Like you, you know, it's it's again, it's keeping it in that bubble. Like if it's not good information, you can you're allowed to say, hey, actually, this is the right information, and then move on from it and don't give it any more air, right? Like just don't give it any, don't let it let it live in in your head rent-free. That's not healthy. Like, just don't give it any more air because it's not healthy for anyone, not just you. Right, exactly.

Ariella Monti 40:42

Um, so the next time you see something questionable, I want you guys to pause and ask yourself do I have more feelings than facts about this issue? And your homework is to bookmark three reputable news sources that kind of pass sniff test with words.

Caitlin K 41:11

That pass the sniff test with reputable information. Right. So where you can find facts, like actual facts. Like that would be the sniff test. Is this a fact? I mean, I think you know, you you might get that question of like what is a fact. I think that's something that people are really struggling with right now is is what is a fact.

Ariella Monti 41:35

And and that's the the thing is like a lot, it's a lot of this stuff is not going to be black and white. Like it's it's not going to be clearly defined lines, it's going to be several shades of gray. Because even when you have like reputable uh news sources and you have really good journalists, everybody is approaching all of this with some kind of lens, you know. And the point of it all is to be able to make the best decision you can with the information that you can find. And it's never gonna be perfect. And you also have to be willing to say that you were wrong. Like the information that you got was was incorrect or the information they got was outdated, and that can be that can be hard for a lot of people.

Caitlin K 42:43

I think that there's a a very real trying to spare their own embarrassment about being wrong about something. Uh, I think that's a big issue with highly misinformed and disinformed people, is they don't want to admit that they were wrong. But there is, it is okay to learn something new and then change your mind about things. That is yeah, that's how you grow. We've talked about that on this show quite a bit with parenting things, right? Like, yeah, yes, yes, I used to let you play Minecraft for this many hours a day, but now I've learned something new and I've learned that that's not healthy for you, so I'm going to limit your time. It is okay to do those things as a parent. So it needs to be okay for you to do those things for yourself and then model that growth for the people who are watching you and learning behaviors from you, right? And that doesn't just mean kids, it it oftentimes does, but it also means the other adults in your life. Like you model the behavior you wish to see. That means using reputable resources, understanding that people are not making up videos of of protests, like there's just things that are that are not happening and that you need to be okay admitting, like, okay, I was completely misinformed about this. Right. I need to do better and yeah and learn something new.

Ariella Monti 44:02

Definitely. And I think that's why kind of going back to that, like, do I have more feelings than facts about a thing? Because especially as an ADHD person, we I feel emotions very strongly. And I can be really impulsive on acting on those emotions. And I have in the past responded to things where especially. Especially on threads where you might not see the original conversation of the conversation. You just saw the responses to the conversation. And maybe, and sometimes you don't even know that you're responding to a response. And I have reacted to the response without all of the facts and have been very, very wrong. Yeah. And have admitted when I'm very, very wrong. But that has that strategy has uh given me a speed bump so that uh I do my due diligence so I'm not reacting completely emotionally every single time.

Old Stories Resurfacing Online

Caitlin K 45:14

Right. And you said something earlier, and as someone who works in social, like this this comes uh to my mind a lot, but uh sometimes when you when you see these these rage bait posts, which again are intended to make the reader angry or feel some type of way about something, and then start arguing, the whole point of those posts, posts, excuse me, is engagement, right? Those those posts are intended to give the person who posted it a boost in the algorithm. That is that is the entire because if there's a boost in the algorithm, then their information gets seen more, and they can either go about their other agenda, which is maybe they're selling something, or maybe they're some sort of bot that's trying to spread misinformation, whatever it is. But just understand like the whole purpose of those is engagement and nothing else. It's not to give you real information. It could, but it's that's not the point of it. So just keeping that in mind, if you see some sort of viral post that's about something fact-based, that's something that's really where you need to sniff it out, right? I mean, we're not saying a viral post about a puppy like is not something that you should like, right? That's not the point here. The point is when it's something that is people are arguing about over or is something that could be considered controversial, this is where you sniff and you decide, like, okay, is there a source? You go through her checklist, you pause, you ask yourself, do I have more feelings than facts? If there are facts, where did those facts come from? If there aren't facts, move on. Don't give it your attention, don't give it the algorithm boost, block that person and keep on going. You don't need to pay attention to it.

Ariella Monti 47:02

Right. I actually just got a few days ago, I got a link sent from my aunt about I don't know, it was something like somebody was putting like razor blades in mailboxes or something. Like it was something weird. And I was like, what? And so I I googled it, and the video that she shared with me was new, like it had just posted like a few days earlier. But when I googled the news, I found out that yes, in fact, it was whatever it was, was true, but it was uh it was several years ago and it was only in this tiny small town near Charlotte. And it happened like three times. And so the video, the original, the video that had been shared with me, made it sound like there's some crazy person running around North Carolina just like shoving, I don't know, razor blades in people's mailboxes. When really whatever happened, it I didn't find any like update to it. So I'm assuming it's but it was like it was it happened like three times a few years ago. And wild that the video was new, like that part is strange to me. Well, and I think that's what tends to happen, especially online, is that this stuff cycles are it resurfaces, you know, it resurfaces, and then you know, people either like aren't paying attention because they assume that it's new because they've never seen it before. And so they either miss the date on it purposely or accidentally, and that's where like the misinformation, like misinformation versus disinformation. Right.

Caitlin K 48:53

If they if they intentionally leave the date out, that's one thing. But if you just miss it, that's that's entirely another. Exactly. That's a very important piece. Like that's so that's so interesting, and that is another thing to be cautious about is this recycling of information. You'll see people make comments about that too. Like, oh yeah, this went viral a few years ago. It turns out this, this, and this. And that's very helpful when you see that kind of stuff. Don't ignore those community notes because usually those are full of people who are doing the work of the fact checking. Right.

Ariella Monti 49:21

Yeah. But that's so crazy. What a and that's the kind of stuff that, like, you're, you know, it's it was very easy for me to Google razor blades in mailboxes, North Carolina.

Grace, Growth, And Admitting Wrong

Caitlin K 49:35

Right. Google is free too. It's free to use. You're allowed to use this resource to search for things. Did you know that? I would tell that to my students all the time. I'd be like, You have a Google machine in your hand. Do you understand how hard that was when I was a kid to imagine that we might have a Google machine in our hand? You're joking. Like, even when we had Blackberries, it didn't have Google on it yet. So, like, this is like right, like I have a supercomputer in my hand and it knows everything about me to a point that's probably scary, but that's a topic for another. I just I'm just saying, like, Google is free. You're allowed to look things up and learn something new. You don't have to and scroll past the EISM. So, all right. Well, that was a lot of information. Thank you for sticking with us. This is, I think, a really important conversation to be having among adults, but also, of course, with your kids. Next time, I am going to be sharing turning how to turn everyday little moments into digestible acidics lessons. So I'm calling it democracy in the minivan right now. That's the idea I have in my head. So because I'm so good at like writing and stuff, I was like workshopping. I'm like, you know, but the other thing is I don't know how many people are people still driving minivans? Or are they pulling like a Kelly Kakura and being like, I want an SUV with three rows of seats.

Ariella Monti 50:59

I mean, there's definitely plenty of them in the school parking lot when I go with my job. Okay, well, that makes me feel funny.

Caitlin K 51:05

I don't have a minivan, I have an SUV, so I just don't. It's a it's a small that doesn't matter. Nobody cares about my car with the cracked windshield. I care about your car. Oh, Suba! Because we both have forest art. Does yours have a cracked windshield too? No. Oh, yeah, I need to get mine fixed. It's been cracked for a minute. And by a minute, I mean several years. Guys, subscribe now to this podcast because this is how you get the best content, clearly.

Ariella Monti 51:38

Right. Full of all the good stuff. Maybe, maybe next time I'm here, I will tell you guys how I taught my child about hedge funds closing stores like Toys R Us. Oh.

Caitlin K 51:57

Is that something you want to hear about? Send us a text. There's a link in the show notes. Just let us know. Otherwise, tune in next time. Like, go ahead.

Ariella Monti 52:08

Or you can follow me on threads and screw my feed. No, it was just I posted it the other day, and it was actually one of my, it was one of my like, you know, because of course if I post anything about my books, like it doesn't go anywhere. But I make a random comment about how I told my child about Toys R Us, and he was like, I don't know what that is. And I was like, because hedge funds bankrupted it and then closed it, and it was some of my best content.

Caitlin K 52:37

Yeah, I made engaging content. Yeah, I made a post once about Tootsie Rolls. I remember that. It had like 12,000 likes on it. I'm like, Tootsie rolls, y'all. Can we really Tootsie Rolls? Were that that I did not know that my post mail appointment Tootsie roll was going to cause this kind of response, but also when I post about my podcast material, crickets. So welcome to threads. Anyway, yeah, democracy in the miniban is coming. Tune tune in for that next week. Until then, I'm here for it. Have a great one. Make a choices. Love you, mean it. Bye. Bye.