SPEAKER_01: 0:28

It's Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00: 0:30

Yeah, it is. Let's do this. Uh, we are so glad you're here today. Today we are talking about what to say when the family talk at the gatherings turns towards politics, and you just can't even. So hopefully this is coming out just in time for you to listen to it before Thanksgiving on the road trip. Thanksgiving over the river and through the woods to grandmother's house, you know? So let's do this.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00

All right. But before we do that, Caitlin, what are you doing in January? I want to discuss the state of our Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12

That's Jenny, my glowingly tricky warrior. I don't know. It's it's a you know, it's a generator that does this. I'm gonna have to start doing it myself because some of these are just so random that I just can't even so.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

Okay. Well, let me tell you, political pickup lines, there's a lot of them out there. Ew. And some of them uh are not as middle of the road as let's discuss the state of our union.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38

Ew. Okay, so um again, as I mentioned, we're talking about what to say at family gatherings when the talk turns towards politics and you are just not on the same page as your family. So today's sources are um two pieces. One is um this lovely Instagram account called Kind Minds Smart Hearts, uh, kindminds underscore smart hearts. And it's run by a woman named Jackie Sentien, and I love her. She's got really nice parenting tips, and she also shares funny memes from parents. So um check her out. And the other, the the heavily cited uh source today is 11 Things to say to your relative whose politics you hate uh by Angela Hott in Time magazine, which was a fabulous article. And um I'm the blog post for this episode is probably gonna be pretty limited to go read that article, but just in case uh you'll be able to find the the video from Jackie in the blog post, and um, I would highly recommend that you read the article, it's very helpful. Um before I get to that, I do want to acknowledge that this election was tough for a lot of people, myself included. Um and as a result, I uh took this article to heart. Um, I firmly believe in doing what you can to protect your peace during this time. Um, and and so that's what kind of this is about. And and as Jackie from Kind Minds Smart Hearts reminded me, the holidays are temporary. Um, it is okay to put up temporary barriers to protect yourself. It's okay to prioritize your mental health. Um, she she ends this video that I'm gonna put in the blog post for this episode by saying, you know, one of my friends, very wise sons, said, Um, I think I've made enough memories with this person. Oh wow. If that's you, that's okay, right? Um, otherwise, just remember this is temporary uh and you know, ultimately the goal is to be able to move forward. So that's the hope here.

SPEAKER_01: 3:43

Um I will tell you, like I um in the fall of 16, my dad started a conversation with is it okay to talk about the election?

SPEAKER_00: 3:56

Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

And I was like, wow, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 3:58

That's a very respectful way to go about this. Very respectful, and I love that. Um, and we're gonna get to that. But the thing is, uh, some people are saying, I'm not going to family get-togethers. And I'm not here to tell you whether or not you can you do that. Again, as I said, I believe in protecting your peace. So if that means that you can't do it, then that's what that means. Okay. No, I get it. Um, but it is really difficult to opt out of family get-togethers. So here are some ways to protect your peace when you do have to attend. Okay. Uh, one is to make your intentions clear ahead of time by saying point blank, I won't be talking about politics today. Perfect. Okay. You are emphasizing that you want to keep the focus on the kids or on the festivities or whatever, and you're gonna ask straight up for a commitment to avoid talking about it. Okay. And chances are it's gonna come up anyway. And when it does, you can say, okay, that's enough of that. Pass the gravy or whatever, opt out. Right. Or um remind everyone, hey, you know, we are not talking about that here today. And let it go. Okay. Um, so that's the first one. I won't be talking about politics today. The second one is uh, if you're choosing empathy, can you tell me a story that helps me understand how you came to believe that? So here's what the article says. It says asking for the story behind someone's beliefs can help us remember that our family members are complex and that their ideas come from a place that we might recognize, even if we don't necessarily subscribe to those beliefs. So the example given here is maybe I disagree with my uncle deeply, deeply, deeply about guns, but his story about his sense of accomplishment and belonging after shooting his grandfather's rifle for the first time might help me remember kind of where he's coming from, right? Right. Um just as we want people to have empathy for how we feel, the best way to do that is to model empathy ourselves, right? So there we go. Um this one, this one I kind of like because it feels a little a little petty. I don't like it. Um but here we go. It's if I had heard only what was in your newsfeed, I'm sure I'd think the same thing, but I've had different experiences in my life.

SPEAKER_01: 6:27

Uh you could even just, if you wanted to dial it back a little bit, you can just say, I've had different experiences in my life.

SPEAKER_00: 6:33

You could, yeah. You really could. Um, so one of the sources uh cited in the Time article is someone named Neilan Parker, who's the executive director of Common Ground USA, which is an organization that's dedicated to building peace. Um considers this a very gentle reminder that even the most compelling news stories don't necessarily apply to equally to everyone's lives, right? Because everyone has different experiences. Um here's another one, number four. What kind of compromise or solution might work for both sides? Uh and maybe reframing it as how do we work to come up with a solution that's inclusive and that's helpful for most people? Um you're you're disarming them by putting them on the same team, right? You're you're saying that ultimately we have the same goal. Let's work together toward to come to that. Okay, number five. And this is one of Jenny's lines that she's used on me. I've heard her use it on her husband. It's it tends to be a distracting line for her for her sometimes, but the line is tell me more. Or you can say more about that. Say say more. Okay. Um even though you might not want to hear more, so this might be a little counterintuitive. Um if you can convince someone that you actually do want to hear what they have to say, um it it disarms them, but they stop ranting about it and they start talking about it. Um and and honestly, it's kind of it's kind of calling them out on the on anything that's inflammatory. They'll they'll chill a little bit, is the usual reaction. Okay. And maybe they'll actually listen to what you have to say also because you've given them a chance to do it.

SPEAKER_01: 8:17

If they're coming from a space where they feel like they don't have permission to share or they don't have the space to talk, and you give them open permission and say, No, I want to hear from you, tell me more. It really does turn off that defense. It does, yeah, and make it a conversation rather than a lecture.

SPEAKER_00: 8:39

And they're not backed into a corner anymore, right? Like that one of the things that I've experienced in my conversations with people who disagree with me uh politically is that the reaction tends to be very defensive and backed into a corner, uh, you know, lashing out, and and letting them have the space outside of that corner tends to be very helpful. And you just mentioned the word permission, and I'm gonna come to that here. This is number six. Could I have permission to share my point of view? Um, so this is part of a commonly used counseling technique called elicit, provide, elicit. And here's how it works: first you find out what someone else's point of view is, then you provide your own perspective, and then you ask the other person for their reaction. The reason this works is that the other person has actively said, yes, I do want to hear what you have to say, right? But if they say no, then don't engage. You don't have to. You're not gonna you're not gonna convince anyone. Why waste your breath if they don't want to hear what you have to say? But interestingly, it's very unlikely that someone's going to say, No, I don't want to hear what you have to say.

SPEAKER_01: 9:58

Unless it's delivered as can I have permission to share my point of view?

SPEAKER_00: 10:03

It's yeah, it's delivery matters. Can I talk about what I believe? Exactly. Delivery matters. Okay. Number seven, I'd like to have a chance to learn from each other because I respect you and I see the world differently. Now I modified that line because the original line was I respect you but see the world differently. And we've talked about this over and over again, right? The word but often negates what you just said. I'm sorry, but is not an I'm sorry, right? I love you but is not an I love you. So if you change it to because I respect you and see the world differently, you've you've created a situation where two things can exist at the same time, right?

SPEAKER_01: 10:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

So the point of that line is to let your family members know that while you might disagree, you still intend to ground your discussion in a place of respect. And you genuinely want to understand where they're coming from. So here's the the caveat here. Um you have to mean that. You can't just say, and I respect you and I see the world differently, and then not actually show respect. So if you if you don't want to learn anything from them, then please don't say that line, right? Right. Um, and another thing is that line tends to be a little bit disarming and and can often do the the backing into the corner thing. So you might decide that you'll continue that discussion in private. Might just be better. Okay, number eight. I like this one. Maybe we could revisit this conversation when we're both feeling more calm. Uh if you're both on edge, walk away. Walk away. And you can say, let's just take a break from this. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01: 12:01

Like, you know, or call yourself out and say, I can feel myself getting heated. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00: 12:06

Put it on you.

SPEAKER_01: 12:07

Don't I think I need a break.

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

You just don't want to say something you're gonna regret later. So getting heated is just not the right it's not the right time to have those conversations. Okay. This is my default when I'm feeling that I am losing control of a situation. Um here we go. It's using humor, okay? You can use humor anytime to diffuse any situation, but this one was like kind of silly. I mean, I'll vote for anyone who will boost the economy, cut my taxes, and prosecute people who remove their shoes on an airplane. Right? Change it. Add a pet peeve in there, you know. Like people are gonna glom onto that humor part, and they're gonna be like, oh my gosh, that's the worst. It's so gross, you know, or like I'll I'll vote for anybody who like says it's not okay for people to put their long, gross hair over the edge of the seat and have it dangle into my like tray table. You know what I'm saying? Stuff like that, or you know, it's really helpful.

SPEAKER_01: 13:09

Because you're turning the conversation and um someone with conversational and social savvy will recognize that. And hopefully there's someone in your group who has that and will follow your lead.

SPEAKER_00: 13:27

Absolutely. I think that people and people like when everyone's in on the joke, you know, like it it it tends to bring everybody back together. Like, I you you know, I've said this many times. Like, I firmly believe that there is a love language that is laughter, shared laughter.

SPEAKER_01: 13:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 13:44

And I think that that's a a pretty common one for a lot of people. So anything you can do to kind of diffuse is going to be helpful. Um, along those same lines. Um, this one was like for say before an election, I'll just be glad when the campaign commercials are over with. But I am saying, uh, I'm just glad all the commercials and text messages have stopped. Yes. You know, just everybody can agree with that statement because they were awful. Incessant. Gosh, uh awful. Um, and when in doubt, you can turn to sports, right?

unknown: 14:20

Right?

SPEAKER_00: 14:21

Looks like the Cowboys probably won't beat the Eagles this year.

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

There you go.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

Way to go, Dak. Right? Like you can turn it to something that's just not at all about politics, if you can. Uh, and if it has to be a random comment that you just throw out there to diffuse, that's fine. People are gonna be way more engaged in a fun conversation that's a debate about sports than they are about a conversation about politics that isn't so fun.

SPEAKER_01: 14:53

And depending on your family, it might work to just say that same phrase every time things start together.

SPEAKER_00: 15:00

Right. Like, what's your go-to? Oh, how about those boys?

SPEAKER_01: 15:06

Remember, we were talking about the cowboys? Yeah. Uh my family, that would totally resonate. They would all laugh and be like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:14

If you're not a sports family, then find something out. If find something else to do, like, you know, wow. So um how about that pie? Real good, yeah? Excited? Like, let's have some pie. And everyone, it's it'll be awkward enough that people will understand that you're trying to shift the conversation to something else. Um, if you need to pull out like a fun conversation game and play at the table. It is okay to have backup support. We've talked about games before. Um, there's some fun ones. You can, there's one like the would you rather questions? Print out a list of those and have them at the table, right? Like do something to make sure that you can steer the conversation in the right direction. Um, now, so here's we've got 11 of them. These are exact again in the time article. The time article is linked in our show notes and the blog post, so you can find them in both places. Um, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna end on this note that I thought was really important from the article, the time article. Remember that if your family member won't let the election go and is just determined to pick a fight, you don't have to participate in that. Right? Um, some people just they just have to keep talking about it. They're gonna ruminate over it and over it and over and over. And this may even be someone who's who you agree with politically and they just they're so upset and they just can't let it go. So uh you don't have to participate. You can take control over what you can, which is yourself, but uh that might mean that you just have to remove yourself from the situation, whatever that looks like. Uh if it means a diffuse comment, if it means uh getting up and excusing yourself to go to the restroom, if it means grabbing a puzzle and going and sitting in the living room, whatever that has to be for you, it is okay. Because again, this is this whole thing is about protecting your peace in this particular situation, which is a hard one.

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

You could passive aggressively do the dishes nice and loud. Bang those pots and pans in the sink.

SPEAKER_00: 17:16

You can. Whatever you have to do, it's okay. Let's take a break. For links to resources mentioned in this episode, head on over to ck and gkpodcast.com slash blog to find everything you need. And be sure to follow us on social media. Head over to your favorite social media network and find us at CKNGK Podcast. And now back to the show. Woo! That was a heavy topic. I hope it helps someone. I hope if you like just pick one. Just pick one line and just glom onto it. It's okay. Repeat it over and over again.

SPEAKER_01: 17:54

Well, and if you have someone that is also not interested in having these conversations.

SPEAKER_00: 18:02

That will help a lot.

SPEAKER_01: 18:03

Right? It really helps to have that partner. I remember when um I was home with a new baby, I had told my mom and my d and my husband, um, if I ask for a cup of tea, that means please get this person out of my face.

SPEAKER_00: 18:17

Ooh, there you go. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01: 18:20

And so I would say, okay, I think I'm gonna make a cup of tea. And they're like, Oh, you know what? I think it's time for you guys to go. I'm sure the baby's hungry, you know, and they would like wrap up the conversation and get the visitor out. Um, so knowing that you have someone that you could lean on, whether it be your partner or a sibling that you uh um do well with, and again, they don't have to agree with you politically, it's just someone that you know, hey, I'm I'm I need to be rescued.

SPEAKER_00: 18:48

Yeah, absolutely. There's and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either. And another thing I would say is do you remember when we talked to Kimball Lewis from Empowering Parents? One of the things he talked about was practice, right? Like practice saying the line. So if you have to, you know, have someone walk you through like a potential scenario, a partner who knows your family and knows what their what their trigger lines would be for you. You're it's okay to look in the mirror, practice. It's okay to say it with a partner, like, hey, we're not talking about this, you know, just get confident saying he is the one who said you do not have to attend every fight you've been invited. Whatever you have to do. Okay, all right. Let's talk about obsessions, because Let me tell you what I'm obsessed with.

SPEAKER_01: 19:35

Let's hear it. The Belafonte.

SPEAKER_00: 19:39

Uh, what?

SPEAKER_01: 19:40

The Belafonte is the name of my brand new Subaru. Oh okay. So um she's just lovely. Um, she's blue wilderness, which is what I've always thought of. She's a beautiful girl. The plants are the seeds are made of plants.

SPEAKER_00: 19:58

She sits on a bed of algae, and it's uh it smells really bad in there. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_01: 20:06

Uh, we got her um the same day that Abby did her checkout dive for Scuba. And um in The Life Aquatic with Steve Zizu, which you know is a scuba dive, one of your favorites too, yeah. One of my favorites, the boat is called the Belafonte, and it is blue, so we decided to name our car the Belafonte.

SPEAKER_00: 20:30

I like it, and it's a girl too, yes. It has a sunroof. Yeah, she does. It's a girl, right? She. Okay. Yeah. She. I don't want cars without sunroofs anymore. I love them. It's like one of my things. I'm obsessed. I I when my first car was a convertible, it was a 1974 five five MGB, which is a little British baby. Yeah, she was precious. Um, I had her for like two months, and then in Colorado, it doesn't make sense to drive a car that's that low to the ground because you can't drive it in the snow. So we traded it in. And my next car, or we sold it to a friend who collected vintage cars. And then my next car had a sunroof, and I drove that car for like 12 years. I'm never I will never go back to a car that doesn't have a sunroof. It doesn't, if it doesn't have one, I don't want it. I don't want it.

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

It's my first sunroof. I love it. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_00: 21:22

Even if you just crack it a little bit, just that fresh, oh my god. I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 21:26

And it has a turbo engine, which I never thought I would be like this, but I'm like, I love the turbo engine.

SPEAKER_00: 21:32

Does it make the noise? Like, do you get it all excited because you can hear it coming up or no?

SPEAKER_01: 21:37

It goes so fast. It goes so that'd be bad for my lead foot. Oh man, I love it so much. I'm like, oh, I'll like race someone off the line. Like, oh, I I got up to 30 miles an hour way faster than you.

SPEAKER_00: 21:50

Like, and then you both stop at the same red light, and that person's like, way to go, friend. You had to go fast, and now we're both in the same light. Good job.

SPEAKER_01: 21:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 21:59

Um, this is not related only except the name, but um, when Sam was little, he had a little blue elephant that stayed in the car all the time, and his name was Harry Elefante.

SPEAKER_01: 22:14

Oh, love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_00: 22:17

Because of, yeah. Anyway, um my current obsession right now is getting decorated for Christmas, and that might seem early to y'all because it's, you know, not Thanksgiving yet. But um, you and I are going on a cruise over Thanksgiving, and we always our family always decorates the day after Thanksgiving, and we won't be here. And I know Okay, so Abby asked if we could decorate before we go.

SPEAKER_01: 22:42

I'm like, oh, that's just one more thing I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00: 22:44

I know, and it's let me tell you, it is stressing me out. I did do the Christmas tree last year, uh, and it took me four days last year because I had to, the lights kept going out. Now, I did the Christmas tree yesterday in like three hours. And and there were plenty of lights that were going out, but this time, for whatever reason, when I would replace the bulb, it would actually work. Oh, and I got smart and stopped trying to like I would replace the bulb, see if it worked. If it didn't work, then I just tossed the bulb in the recycling. Like I didn't try to hang on to it and then keep testing it in other things. Like, just let it go. Like, it's a Christmas light bulb. It's they come, you get extras in every time you buy lights. Like, just let it go. I have like probably 30 little baby light bulbs that I can just test it. Like, so anyway, the tree is still on this morning, which is amazing because last year it would last about two hours, and then I would have to go through. I think I had to take off all the lights maybe three times last year. So anyway, the rest of the Christmas decor is going up.

SPEAKER_01: 23:52

It's not it is 12 feet tall and it is not going up before.

SPEAKER_00: 23:55

Oh, yeah, you guys have a big one. Ours is nine feet, so like we can, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:59

And I also it requires climbing the stairs. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 24:04

Uh I will say this. I don't know how you do your Christmas lights. I'm a I am a I don't just like gently lay the lights on the branches. Like, that is not for me. I can't do that. I have to, I have to be very deliberate and intentional about how I do them. I do the trunk is all white so that it has what my mom and I respectfully call the inner glow. Uh we we revel in the inner glow of the tree. And then the outside lights are color, but I used to wrap them around each layer going up and down. Um, like I would start at the bottom and then go all the way around the tree, kind of like a spiral, like ice cream cone sort of thing. Um, I stopped doing that, and now I go up and down. So I'll go all the way up and all the way down and all the way and like kind of go back and forth. It makes the lights go on faster. It's more efficient with the amount of lights that you have, and it's easier to take them off.

SPEAKER_01: 25:04

So um we have this thing called a pre-lit tree.

SPEAKER_00: 25:07

I know they don't have enough lights on them for me. If I had a pre-lit tree, I would still put more lights on it. Because I, my favorite thing ever is when there's no lights on in the house except for the Christmas tree, and it lights up the whole stinking room. Like that's my favorite thing. Yeah, no, we don't know more lights. That's why I don't do pre-lit trees because I want I yeah. That's it's just me. I need more lights. Anyway, that's my obsession is decorating for Christmas.

SPEAKER_01: 25:36

Okay, here's my gem. I am reading a book called The Disappearing Spoon. Okay, it is about the periodic table, it's little vignettes about how the uh periodic table was uh put together and then stories about each of the elements.

SPEAKER_00: 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:54

And it is riveting.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

Sounds boring.

SPEAKER_01: 25:59

Well, that's it. Every person that I've read it around is like, doesn't that make you want to fall asleep? Isn't that boring? And I'm like, no, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00: 26:09

I have gotten into one science book, and it was The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lax, but otherwise, I I mean I can't, I haven't gotten into but okay. I mean, disappearing spoon, I don't get it.

SPEAKER_01: 26:19

But so my gem has happened multiple times.

SPEAKER_00: 26:21

So people are saying, aren't you bored out of your book?

SPEAKER_01: 26:23

Don't you think that book is boring? And I have to say, no, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 26:27

Oh my gosh. Okay, well, speaking of amazing, I'm gonna have a little personal celebration. Um, and this is more personal than I think we usually get, but I'm just gonna say it. Um, I am somebody who at my 40-year-old mammogram, yay for being 40, um, there's just a little cluster of something that's going on, right? And I had to have a follow-up diagnostic mammogram, and then they said, okay, this looks okay for now, but we're concerned I we want you to come back in six months. So I had my six-month follow-up the other day, and everything looks clean right now. So it's not perfect. It that that little cluster of stuff is still there, but it hasn't changed. But they can watch it, and they're just watching it. And so that's really good that it hasn't changed in six months, and I'm celebrating that. And if you haven't already, I know we passed uh breast cancer awareness month, but frankly, every month should be that month. So check yourself if you haven't already. And if you're over 40 and you haven't booked your first mammogram, this is your reminder to please go do that. Also, it's not so bad. It used to be worse. I had a mammogram when I was 28 uh for what I would consider to be a similar issue. Um that one really hurt. I don't know if I just wasn't know I didn't know what to expect, or I think the technology has really improved, frankly, um, where they don't have to do what they've had to do. But uh it is kind of wild to see the amount of pressure they put on you. Like they'll show you in pounds, like how how heavy the pressure is on yourself. Um but it does I always just take a couple of Motrin before I go and then go in, and I really don't have an issue. It doesn't hurt.

SPEAKER_01: 28:05

And I will tell you, uh, the clinic I went to was also super fast. Yes, it doesn't take very long my appointment meant something. I got there at the time, checked in, and was taken right back. And it the whole squish is like 10 minutes. Yeah, it's not bad.

SPEAKER_00: 28:21

It's really not bad at all.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

So if you haven't done it because it's producing anxiety for you, does it cause pain? Absolutely. But is it uh very hard? And the pain is temporary. And let me tell you this: I just got an immunization and it hurt when I got it because it's a needle, and now my arm is still sore. That's not how a mammogram is. Does not have residual soreness after the mammogram. After I was uh dressed again, I was fine.

SPEAKER_00: 28:49

Yeah, it's really it's super easy. I would just highly recommend going. Just go get it done.

SPEAKER_01: 28:54

Get it done.

SPEAKER_00: 28:55

All right. Your insurance covers it, it's free. Yep. And if it's a diagnostic one, they'll tell you the results before you walk out the door. So you don't have to go home and feel like you're in agony just waiting for information. So that's really nice. That's what happened with me. So it's nice. Okay, so cheers to a clean mamogram.

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

Make good choices.

SPEAKER_00: 29:17

And uh protect your peace. You can do this. And happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Bye.