Caitlin Kindred: 0:27

Learned about this that there was a study done, I think it was like 2013, that was that singing actually is one of those things that releases endorphins. And as we know, endorphins make you happy. Happy people don't shoot their husbands. Right. Uh, but like it, it's a thing. That's why singing in the car feels so good. Like it's a, it's a, it's an energy boost. It and it's a uh it releases oxytocin and endorphins, which both are like feel-good chemicals in the brain.

Ariella Monti: 0:58

I have a playlist called Scream It Out. Yeah, and it's like all of the the songs that I love to scream sing in the car. And like I think I I think I started it during the pandemic when I would yeah, and then I just like keep it going and just add more to it. I just yeah, either add or like you know, after a while, like then you get ADHD, like eventually get tired of certain songs. Yeah, I'll pull them, you know, yeah, pull them a rotation. But yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:33

Yeah. I had a when I lived in Colorado, there there was a radio station that is very popular there. It's 97.3 KBCO, and it's a great station for anyone who likes um kind of like Americana meets like indie rock and then some rock and roll music. It's got a it's got a little bit of everything there, honestly. Um, it's a great station. And you could submit like three song sets to them and win tickets. And I submitted a three-song set of Scream Sing songs. It's like one of them was like Keen, and then which who, by the way, if you know who Keen is, anyone listening. Yeah, exactly. That face says a lot. It was like Keen, Lorde, and something else. Anyway, but it was all like a bunch of songs that I could totally just belt out in the song. They made me or in uh in the car made me feel so good to sing them. And I actually, when I submitted it, I won Counting Crows tickets to Red Rocks.

Ariella Monti: 2:29

Yes, Counting Crows.

Caitlin Kindred: 2:32

Yeah, it was great. And I also have there's a station here in Austin that plays kind of like 90s and 2000s rock, and it's it made me very happy. Like yesterday, 311 came on Filter Take My Picture and Filter.

Ariella Monti: 2:49

Oh my god.

Caitlin Kindred: 2:50

That was one of my favorite songs. I loved that song, and it's like you know that song's based on a true story where he was like, No, not exactly there were some substances, and he ended up like naked on a plane. Yeah, that's it, yeah. It was kind of yeah, that's anyway. Hey guys, we're you're here, and we're happy to have you. Uh so this is how to be a grown-up. This is the how-to show for women who miss the days when liking something just meant all you had to do was nod your head. I mean, this is that person that you hear laughing at me. Hopefully, I have my jokes. She can laugh at me too. I don't care, honestly. If there's nothing, she can laugh at me, she could because she'll also lift me up at the same time, so it all works out. Um, this is Ariella Monti, she's a novelist, and she is a caffeine-powered brainstorming session in human form.

Ariella Monti: 3:44

And the wind beneath your wings.

Caitlin Kindred: 3:46

Yes. Oh my god. Picture this, if you will. You're 13 and suddenly you can't focus on anything. Is it because your boy is crazy? No, it's not. Or you're pregnant and your brain feels like mush. Or you're 45, just not that far away for us. And wondering if you're losing your mind because words just disappear mid-sentence and it's really hot all of a sudden. Uh, I'm gonna tell you here, these are not separate problems. These are all the same thing. These are your brain responding to major hormonal shifts in your life. So this is part two of our ADHD in hormones series. Last time we covered the basics of like hormones 101, why estrogen is your brain's best friend and progesterone is a brat, uh, and not the good kind of brat, right? Um kind, not the fun kind. Um, their influences on each phase of your menstrual cycle and what those mean for your symptoms. What? Serious topic. Can you tell Ariella writes certain kinds of books for a living? Brattiness.

Ariella Monti: 5:07

Words have so many new meanings.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:16

Oh, don't look up brat material on Etsy, okay? Just don't do that. Unless you have a certain lifestyle choice, don't do it. But no, no, you do it too. Don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what to look up on Etsy. You're gonna you're gonna find some things you didn't know existed. I'm just gonna tell you that right now. Um like the time when my friend Ashley and I were watching a professional development session at school at a very, very conservative Christian school. And this man had a like Harry Potter remote control wand that he was using to like select people. And I was like, that's so cool. I want that. And what do Ashley and I do? Immediately look up magic wand on our phones during the professional development session. Oh, I got a look from my boss, from my principal. I was in so much trouble. Like we were just over there cackling, like, oh shoot, why did we do that? That's anyway, that is not the point. The point is those hormones, estrogen and progesterone, are very, very influential in your life. They have fluctuations throughout not just your cycle, but also your life phases. And so if you haven't listened to that previous episode of our intro, like please go do that because it kind of gives you the rundown of what you need to know before we get into this one. But today we're going to get into kind of a nitty-gritty of your life cycles. So how your ADHD symptoms change throughout different life phases and why some periods of your life periods, oh my gosh, feel like ADHD is ramped up. And there's, you know, there's so much science here. I I'm I I'm not a science teacher, but I should have been. I would have known a lot more. There's actual science behind why your teenage years, why pregnancy, why menopause might have felt or currently feel like they're absolutely chaotic if you have ADHD. If you are an ADHD mom, like you're a mom with ADHD, or a parent of an ADHD daughter. First of all, if you're a parent of an ADHD daughter and you don't have ADHD, maybe just reassess because there's a good chance that you do. Um, but this episode is for you. Please make sure you're following, subscribe to this show. And if you haven't left us a review yet and you are a listener, please do that. It means so much to us. We currently have a 4.9, a 4-9 on Apple Podcasts. And yet for some reason, we're not ranking. So I would love it if we could get some more reviews. Maybe I'll even put them on our website. Who knows? Be awesome. Anyway, let's get into this. If you could see the list of sources that I used, it is massive. I it was so hard. It was so hard to put all this together. Um, there's a couple of uh one of them I have listed here twice, which is not great. Um, anyway, there were a couple that were pretty prominent. So again, Chad, the website, ch a d chad.org. Attitude mag. This is a new website I'd never heard of before. Adept, A-D-D-E-A-E-P-T, Adept. Kind of clever.

Ariella Monti: 8:35

I think I've come across it.

Caitlin Kindred: 8:37

Okay.

Ariella Monti: 8:38

I don't know anything about it.

Caitlin Kindred: 8:41

A few of these were like actual, you know, research studies that I would like to see a quote and I was like, oh, we have to somehow work that in. So there's a few from PMC, which is a research aggregate. There's a very focused researcher who's very focused on this topic. Her name is Ashley G. Eng. She is looking into hormonal effects of ADHD on women during different phases of life. So I used her stuff, Science Direct, um, Health Mine Understood. The whole list is on the blog post for this episode. Please go check out some of those sources. There, there's some fascinating information there. Um and ADHD or sorry, Attitude Mags article, we demand into attention. Oh my gosh, can I start that over? We demand attention on how hormonal changes impact ADHD symptoms in women. Yes, we do. Because as I said in the last episode, patriarchy is part of the problem when it comes to why your meds don't work during certain times of the month. So, anyway, all those sources and mentions. But before we dive into this, I want to share a couple of stats that I learned that make me angry. And get your middle fingers ready for the patriarchy. Okay, here we go. 94% of women with ADHD say their symptoms get worse during perimenopause and menopause. 94%. That's not a coincidence. That's a pattern. That's real.

Ariella Monti: 10:03

Yep.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:03

More than half of women with ADHD describe this period as the most difficult ADHD-wise in their entire lives.

Ariella Monti: 10:11

I believe it.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:13

We are talking about women who've been managing ADHD for decades and suddenly they feel like they've lost their instruction manual for how any of this like works. Like what? Yeah. So all of these research articles kept saying the same thing over and over again, which is partly why I use so many, because I was looking into this and I'm going, wait, this one says it. Now this one says it. Now this one says it. So I'm just gonna put this out there. Science. On this, on this podcast, we believe in science. If you are not a science person, hardcore. Yeah. If you're not a science person, stop listening. Bye. Uh just gonna I'm like, listen, I'm not, I'm here. Beggars can't be choosers when it comes to listeners, but I'm gonna say this now. You need to believe in science if you're gonna be an enjoyer of this show. Anyway, science is clear. It's the drops in estrogen, not just the absolute amount of estrogen in your body, but the actual physical drop that send your ADHD symptoms into overdrive. Okay. So if you remember from the last episode, if you listened, if you didn't go. Bye. See you later. Come back. Estrogen is your brain's personal assistant, it's your brain's best friend. When it suddenly quits without notice, if you don't have if you had a personal assistant who then quits without notice, everything falls apart, right? So that's what's happening here. So let's get into the actual life phases. So moms of girls in puberty or about to be in puberty, here you go. Level one, puberty. Or when ADHD crashes the hormone party. I'm so good at this content writing. So you or your daughter are cruising through elementary school. Maybe you're struggling a little bit, but you're managing, and then all of a sudden, puberty hits like a freight train and it's carrying hormones as cargo. So for girls with ADHD, puberty often reveals symptoms that were previously hidden or under the radar. Those hormone surges don't just change your body, they're obviously changing your brain, and they're rewiring pretty much everything within your brain's chemistry. So here's what's going on. Remember progesterone, the it's complicated, friend? It spikes and starts interfering with your estrogen's cognitive benefits, like dopamine production. So all of a sudden, anxiety and irritability become harder to manage. Your impulsivity goes through the roof, and whatever organizational system that you had is now gone and or no longer working. And that happens to everyone, right? That's what the body is doing in puberty. However, for dopamine depleted folks, everything is ramped up, right? And that's why you might hear women say, like, I was fine until middle or high school. Uh, and then everything fell apart. It's not that you got lazy or that you stopped caring. It's that your brain chemistry completely shifted and now no one told and no one told you that was what was going on. You learned in your, you know, middle school sex ed class that, like, oh, women's bodies are doing this thing. Imagine the most beautiful flower you've ever seen. But that's the kind of stuff that you were told. Right. But you weren't told about the actual science behind what's happening. And if you don't know that you have ADHD because you're an elementary student and it's your symptoms aren't pronounced, then you really have no clue as to what's going on. Right. So and then after puberty, you kind of, you know, things sort of start to level out. You maybe you have your ADHD meds or whatever it is, and you're kind of plugging along, and then you go through those monthly cyclical issues we talked about in the last episode. But then, should you choose to have a child, pregnancy and postpartum start to start to show some new things. This is if you have if you have been pregnant and birthed a child, this is gonna sound familiar, especially if you have ADHD, but this is like such a hormone roller coaster for everyone who's has been pregnant. It's insane. If your regular monthly hormone changes are like riding a bike, being pregnant is like being strapped to a rocket ship. If we can make that connection here. So during pregnancy, some women feel like they have superpowers because of the estrogen boost that is involved in being pregnant. However, progesterone also spikes during this time as your body goes into overdrive, producing the chemicals that are needed to keep a baby alive in your body. So some people feel like their brain gets replaced with cotton balls. It's honestly a crapshoot. It just depends on your body's chemistry, and everybody's chemistry is different. Then during postpartum, and we mentioned this in the last episode, I think Ariel and I both had a much harder time in postpartum than we did during pregnancy. Postpartum is when things kind of get real for people. Your hormone levels during postpartum don't just drop. They're legitimately plummeting. And it happens like immediately after birth. These hormone levels just start to just hit the ground. And for women with ADHD, it's sort of this perfect storm of all of these different things, again, which we mentioned in our last episode, which is an increased risk of postpartum depression. And I'm also gonna say probably postpartum anxiety, because ultimately ADHD does kind of mess manifest itself as an anxiety disorder. Dramatic changes in focus and energy. And this is not just like the baby is not sleeping, so I'm not sleeping. This is also additional focus issues on top of the exhaustion focus issues. And then any executive functioning that you have that just feels completely gone, broken, whatever it is. Yeah. Out the door. Completely. And I thought it was like, well, you know, I can't get up. I'm strapped to the couch because if I move, he's he's gonna wake up and he never sleeps. So I can't, I can't move right now. So nothing's gonna get done. I really thought that's what it was. It's not, it wasn't that. It was so much more deep than that from my experience. Many women get their first ADHD diagnosis during or after pregnancy because of these issues that are um now unmasked due to all those hormonal changes. Um, again, previously manageable symptoms, not good, but manageable, are completely unmanageable. And again, I'm gonna say this is not to say that people without ADHD are functioning like normal humans in the pregnancy and postpartum phase. I don't mean that at all. I mean that it's just amplified for these ADHD uh people. So I said level one and level two. I called this one the final boss level. Perimenopause and menopause. Um, if you thought that the teenage hormone surge was rough, yes. Also, welcome to perimenopause and menopause, where estrogen doesn't just fluctuate, it gradually packs its bags and leaves town. We're good. Bye. Um, so here's what almost every woman in their 40s and 50s with ADHD experiences. Uh forgetfulness that feels life altering. It's not just where did I put my keys, but also what was I saying mid-sentence? Mental fatigue that makes you uh feel like you are literally trying to think through molasses, which I have experienced fairly recently, and that is that is really hard.

Ariella Monti: 17:57

Yes, that is uh granted, I think undi untreated sleep apnea is making that worse. But yes, the constantly feeling like speaking this sentence is taking a lot of thought and a lot of effort that it really wouldn't, like if we were having this conversation like five years ago.

Caitlin Kindred: 18:25

Yeah. I don't, and I I'm gonna say I don't know what that is, but I'm telling you what that is.

Ariella Monti: 18:30

Yeah, yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 18:32

It's horrible issues. Um, and again, we know that these issues are pronounced for women with and without ADHDs, right? It it's not a it's it's not unique, it's not a unique experience. It's just that this is again amplified to the point where you truly feel non-functioning. Word finding trouble. Your vocabulary literally disappears on you, which happens regularly on this show.

Ariella Monti: 18:56

So you probably know exactly what we're talking about. Do you realize how how obnoxious this is as a writer? Like I do somebody somebody who like uses words for a living. All of my drafts have little, like, I'll put uh something close to what I'm looking for and then highlight it with a comment that usually says something like, not this word, but something like it. Yes.

Caitlin Kindred: 19:28

Yeah, some of my drafts say stuff like that where it's like, this isn't the word, but it's close to what I mean. I'll have that. Also, fairly recently, and this has happened to me one other time before, but I could not think of the word have as in I have a podcast or I have red hair. So I use the word half as in 50%. Yep. All over this item, all over, because the word have did not come to my brain. And there was, wasn't there uh just a recent video that came out of like a woman who can't say who mixes up ketchup and mayonnaise or ketchup and mustard or something? Oh my gosh, now I'm making balloons on my screen. What am I doing? At least once an episode. But she does something where she's like, here, chatch up and and and then she can't figure out what it is. And she's like, chatch up, chatch up, chuck. And she can't get it right, but it's ketchup, she can't say the word.

Ariella Monti: 20:26

Yeah, it's I haven't seen it, but I have experienced it.

Caitlin Kindred: 20:30

Yeah. It and I'm watching this going, this is hilarious. And oh my gosh, I understand exactly how she's feeling because she knows the word is wrong, but she can't fix it. So that's yeah. The other one that is common for women in uh perimenopause and menopause is emotional overwhelm. It feels completely disproportionate to what's actually happening. And again, because people with ADHD struggle so much with emotional regulation, it's just amplified in this situation. So let's get into the science. Ready? And I love this line that I wrote. I'm so proud of it. Let's get nerdy for a hot flash minute. Welcome. You're welcome. Because this stuff is actually really fascinating to me. So here's menstrual cycle studies. Here's what we know. Researchers followed young women throughout their cycles and found that ADHD symptoms, especially inattention and impulsivity, literally double when estrogen drops after ovulation. Double. So estrogen directly stimulates dopamine and serotonin receptors in your brain. These are the exact circuits that are involved in executive function and emotional regulation, which is the stuff that ADHD messes with, right? So when your estrogen dips, your dopamine drops, and all of your ADHD symptoms spike. One researcher said perfectly during the follicular phase, when estrogen levels rise, ADHD symptoms are lowest and focus improves. But during the luteal phase, when estrogen drops and progesterone rises, symptoms like forgetfulness and impulsivity spike. Okay. It's not in your head. Brain chemistry. Um those because those hormone, because estrogen is so involved in those phases of your life, you can see how you are all you're dealing with these cycles like at what's the word? Consec no, concurrently. So you're having those monthly hormonal changes while you're also dealing with those life phases. So it's a lot for you to deal with all at the same time. And your body just does it somehow naturally, even though I'm just gonna say men could never. Men could never, even though men could never, you are handling it. So I'm just gonna put that out there. But here's something else I have to say, and I've mentioned a few times individual differences are a really big deal here. Not every woman experiences these symptoms in the same way. There are plenty of women I know who enjoyed the postpartum period way better than they enjoyed the pregnancy period, right? Because their pregnancies were miserable and they're and they were like, oh, I'm finally not pregnant, and they were able to like enjoy that phase. That was not my experience. I was cute as a button when I was pregnant. That was not my situation. Nothing was normal after that. Yeah. Some women with higher trait impulsivity or emotional sensitivity are especially vulnerable to estrogen fluctuations, especially as these life cycles play out. Um, if you're someone who feels like you go from zero to completely overwhelmed in two and a half seconds when your hormones are shifting, that's not a character flaw. That's your brain chemistry responding to hormonal changes that you have no control over. So I guess my bottom line here is I just want to make sure you understand you're dealing with the monthly hormone fluctuations in addition to the life cycle fluctuations. And that's a lot for you to be dealing with. And so that's that's why your ADHD is manageable one week, not manageable the next week, and then as you get older, less and less manageable during certain weeks. Whether you're a mom watching your teenage daughter who's suddenly struggling in school, or you're dealing with postpartum brain fog that feels completely impossible, insurmountable, or you're wondering why your 40s feel like your ADHD has kicked into hard mode on Mario Kart, there are real biological reasons for that. And again, remember that you can't control any of it. So the takeaway here is to start tracking your symptoms pretty closely, especially during times of hormonal transition. And we'll get into more of that management, medication, advocacy in the next episode. So I want to remind you that hormones are central to the ADHD experience for women, and they're gonna require adjusting your management strategies, which we've given you plenty of throughout this whole ADHD series as life cycle stages progress for you and monthly as your hormones fluctuate with your cycle. Next week, we're talking about those practical things like medication adjustments, advocacy strategies, and management so that you can work with your hormones instead of trying to fight them. Understanding all of this is gonna be step one for you so that you can go in and use those strategies that we've provided. So, yeah, step I what I wrote was because understanding what's happening is step one. And step two is knowing what the hell to do about it. Yeah. I'm gonna offer you these additional listener questions for reflection because I think, again, important to consider what's going on in your own brain. Did your ADHD symptoms change dramatically during puberty, pregnancy, or perimenopause? Yes. Yes. Uh have you noticed patterns and how your symptoms shift during different life phases? Yeah. Maybe. If you're a mom, are you seeing signs of ADHD in your daughter as she goes through puberty?

Ariella Monti: 26:21

Don't have a daughter.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:23

I don't either. No, I only have a son. But I've heard good things about daughters. I am one. I think my parents would say they're pretty cool. And uh, I know people who do have them, and they seem awesome. Either way, we want to hear from you. Some of my best friends have daughters. Some some most of my best friends are daughters. So it really works out.

Ariella Monti: 26:45

Yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:46

I would say we're pretty awesome. Um, either way, I want to hear from you. I know Ariella does too. These experiences are really important, and you have a community of people behind you who, you know, want to help you feel less alone. And we'll get in again a little bit more into that. But please send us a DM, send us an email. We'd love to hear your experiences here, and and we maybe we can share some of them, or either way, we'll just empathize because we get it. We'll be right back. Okay, y'all. POV, you find a diary exposing forbidden magic, and the hot museum caretaker's life depends on you burning it. Roots and Inc., the debut novel by Ariella Monti, is the fantasy romance for rebels. Use promo code CK and GK to get 20% off your copy at arielemonty.com. Again, that's all caps at C K A N D G K for 20% off on Arielamonti.com. Get your copy for 20% off today. Okay, um I did something that I don't I would I would consider this peak parenting. Okay. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. I like how I said that to you and then I just completely stopped talking. Uh where are the words? So this goes out to all the millennials out there who remember the original memes. I wouldn't say memes. These were these were the OG things we laughed about before memes. One of them was every college guy yelling, What did the five fingers say to the face? Slap because of Dave Chappelle, which is it still remains one of the funniest Dave Chappelle sketches I've ever seen in my entire life. And I've watched many because I loved that show. The other one was Tom Star Runner. And for whatever reason, this morning, my I had in my head burninating the countryside, burninating the peasants. And I, of course, needed to sing it. And my nine-year-old looks at me and he is like, uh, what? Why? Who's Trogdor? So we had to have a life. Trogdor! If you do not know what I'm talking about, you need to go look up strong bad trogdor, t-o-g D-O-R, Trogdor on YouTube. Because, or just go find the Home Star Runner channel on YouTube. Because did you know that's a thing? Because I found it this morning. You can go watch all the old Home Star Runner videos. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, my son now knows Fernanating the Countryside. S more different S. And my son is a very talented artist. He draws amazing things. And he was watching Strongbad draw, and he was like, Mom, this is this is so painful. I cannot watch him draw this dragon. And I was like, no, it's it's good. Watch him put the wing a lings on it. The one muscular arm. Well, and he starts out drawing it with like muscular arms and legs, and then he's like, that's not natural. Tackling, tackling over these videos. And my son is looking at me like, I don't know what's funnier. Like my mom's reaction to like truna or

Ariella Monti: 30:28

This stupid dragon. Listen, strong bed and trogdoor blow skibity toilet. Out of the water. Out of the toilet.

Caitlin Kindred: 30:39

Out of the water. There's no. Yeah. These are all it's what the heck? Skibity toilet? No, it's so dumb. Or what's the one that my son keeps saying these days? Six, seven. Oh my gosh, I can't with that one. That one is bad. And then he changed it to like four one. It's not worth knowing. Thank goodness. It's not worth knowing. It's nothing, it's stupid. You don't need to look it up. It's dumb. It's just a meme that was popularized by a basketball player. It's not a big deal, but Drogdoor is classic and that will live on. That's like saying, but I am le tired. It's like just one of those, you know, it just will live on forever. Do you remember that? But I am le tired. I I do it's the WTF mate video.

Ariella Monti: 31:23

But for like for the life of me, I can't remember like where it came from. You know, like I don't remember where it originated, but I remember that particular clip.

Caitlin Kindred: 31:38

It's there's a video that everybody was also saying at that time, which was WTF mate, and it was like about like global conflict. And it was a French woman who's like, but I'm le tired. Um my friend Elsie says, I am le tired all the time, and it makes me laugh. And I I picked it up from her. So, but it's it's that it's that vibe. Uh, and the other thing I taught my son in addition to this was the time was the llama song. Do you remember the llama song? It's it's dumb. It's like, here's a llama, there's a llama, and another little llama. It's dumb, it's dumb, it's dumb. But when hyperlinks were relatively new in college, and we people were, you know, using aim to chat with each other. Yes. I used to send one time my my roommate and I were, shall we say, not with it. We'll just use those that language, with some jello that had that been spiked. And we started sending my boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband, hyperlinks to the llama song. And he kept clicking on it.

Ariella Monti: 32:49

And we it was so you were brick rolling him with the room.

Caitlin Kindred: 32:52

We were rick rolling him with the llama song. Yeah. Yeah. It was really funny. And I and I was telling that to my son. I was like, look, here's the here, here's how I really made your dad mad. I sent him this song. And then he like tried to get Alexa to play it. And I was like, no, no, no. We don't need to, we don't need to poke the bear right now. We like we can you and I can sing the llamasong to each other, but we don't need to make dad turn here. Yeah I'm just I was just waiting to see what his face would be. Anyway, uh that's a little glimpse into our millennial life right now. I love it. Little Homestar Runner, a little strong bad, little trogdor, a little llama song. And we're gonna wrap this up because I am lit tired. Okay, bite.