Caitlin Kindred: 0:27

Hello, hi, my friends, we are so glad you're here. Welcome to how to Be a Grown-Up. This is the how-to show for moms who've ever said I will remember that and then immediately did not remember that because we, as the meme says, I do not control the remember right. So thanks for sticking with us while we took a couple of weeks to just life, right. But today let me start that again. Let me say this I'm Caitlin With me today. Co-hosting for Jenny is Arielle Amante, who is the author of the incredible novel Roots in Ink and the forthcoming Bound by Ink, which, oh my gosh, the cover is so gorgeous, right, oh my goodness I'm about to make it my whole personality.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:19

I know you have to. It's like deep purples and teals and it's so gorgeous, oh my gosh, okay. She's a velvet-voiced tornado of brilliance and kindness. Velvet-voiced tornado of brilliance and kindness.

Ariella Monti: 1:35

Velvet-voiced feels like something I have to work into a book now.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:41

I think you do, and I want the credit, just so you know. Absolutely, absolutely, oh goodness. Okay, so today we are talking about ADHD and emotional regulation, or dysregulation, so what I mean is, this is why ADHD brains feel so intensely common emotional triggers, including some that are specific to moms, and then, next episode, we're going to get to tools for emotional grounding and self-soothing. Before we do that, though, I want to remind our listeners that if you like your books, like you like your salsa extra spicy you can get.

Caitlin Kindred: 2:27

Arielle's books for 20% off using promo code CK and GK on her website, arielleamonticom, which I've linked in the show notes. Okay, so let's get started before I'm worried that y'all are mad at me for taking too long with this intro, because that's real, okay, all right. Okay, so I have a story. All y'all know I was a teacher. I'm just going to say this now I'm a delightful human, right, and I'm a delightful human outside of the classroom and also inside of the classroom. And then a kid would come up to me and ask something innocuous like where's the stapler, or where do I put this? You know, in January, when we've been doing it for months, and I will respond like that child has personally offended my ancestors, like where the F did that come from? Like I wasn't mad.

Caitlin Kindred: 3:23

I wasn't mad, I thought I was in a good mood. And the kid just asks something silly, like, or says hello, and I'm like, like, and it just comes out of nowhere and the way that I would describe it for myself is kind of like emotional whiplash. You know just, you're there and then this emotion comes out of nowhere. Um, when I was younger, I got called too sensitive or told that I couldn't take a joke when certain people I'm just going to say that made fun of me or you know like, horrifically bullied me, which is what was actually happening in school.

Caitlin Kindred: 4:03

Or, and even now, like, when I'm angry, I will ruminate on the reason that I'm angry. I will spin around in circles in my head and repeat myself like a toddler who wears themselves out by running around in circles, and it means that sometimes I can't forgive or I can't move on and it makes me hold grudges. When I'm sad, it's like all that I am Right, like I'm not anything else. I can't see out of that sadness. There's no way of coming out of it. I'm going to be sad forever. And then, you know, just put a puzzle in front of me or get me into Canva and let me start doing something that occupies my brain and I will stop being sad and forget that I ever was sad, right, right. So does that sound? It sounds like you can identify with that.

Ariella Monti: 4:54

Oh yes, yes, I feel like this is just a daily part of my existence, like a like. It's just like a foundational part of how I walk through the world right, it's, and it is very whiplash feeling.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:12

You know one minute you're one way and the next minute you're the other, and it's so intense. So I hope that if you are able to identify with any of those things that I just described about myself, you lost it. This is for you. So again, welcome to emotional regulation or dysregulation in the ADHD form. So here's what's going on. It turns out that ADHD doesn't just make us lose our keys, which I have recently done. It makes us completely lose our cool altogether, and there are ways to make yourself stop feeling like an emotional hazard. But we have to get through understanding why we are the way that we are first. So I have a bunch of sources for today. Of course, attitude Mag Chad, which is children and adults with attention deficit or hyperivity Disorder, and understoodorg, and then, if you haven't heard of the channel how to ADHD on YouTube, that's another great one that I would highly recommend. All of the sources and articles that I've used are in the blog post for this episode, so please go check those out. And, of course, us, because ADHD right, all right.

Ariella Monti: 6:31

So we are our own experts on our own lives, but we are not doctors.

Caitlin Kindred: 6:36

No, not at all, and please seek help if you need it. So ADHD emotions are not just big feelings. It's actually an emotional hijacking, like a neurological hijacking, and the sort of more official definition is when someone's emotions are all over the place, way stronger than they should be, lasting longer than usual, popping up at the worst times or leading to really intense reactions, and I would further add that sometimes these emotions actually interrupt your life such that you cannot do what is necessary to be done. Yes, so there is a. I'm going to read this quote that I really, really liked, which was by Dr Thomas E Brown, who's a clinical psychologist and director of the Brown Clinic for Attention and Related Disorders.

Caitlin Kindred: 7:25

He says many with ADHD syndrome report disproportionate emotional reactions to frustration. Yes, a short fuse, a low threshold for irritability. I feel like I'm describing my child, but also that's me. Yep, you know, it's like you're a smoke detector and you go off for burnt toast and also a large fire and everything in between. Yes, what's interesting, though, is that this emotional dysregulation, this increased irritability, this whatever you want to call it is really common in ADHD adults, and children too, but it's actually not an official part of the diagnosis and is not one of the criteria in the DSM-5, which is the current diagnostic manual for, yeah, what? No, it's not in there. That's bananas, isn't it?

Ariella Monti: 8:21

It should be yeah, like I could see.

Caitlin Kindred: 8:27

No, yeah, no, no, yeah no, I am speechless, which is hard for someone with ADHD. We're often not, but the thing that I think is interesting about that is it's so subjective. Emotions are so subjective. I don't know that you can put a science. You know it's already like mental health is already somewhat subjective in nature anyway, because of how people feel things. So I don't know that you could pin that in there, but it is a very commonly recognized trait, and when I was going through my evaluation, the irritability piece was probably one of the biggest red flags for my personal evaluator.

Caitlin Kindred: 9:09

So let's talk about the science behind this. Adhd brains have differences in the amygdala, which is the emotional center of your brain, and the prefrontal cortex, which is the regulation center of your brain, so that's where you do all your logic and reasoning. So because of those differences, we have faster and stronger emotional reactions and a much slower return to baseline, like that might be why you're still ruminating on something three hours later, right? And then, because we also have low dopamine, we seek out emotional hits, because dopamine helps you regulate your emotions, and so you might look for things that make you feel good or bad in order to kind of keep tabs on your emotions, and so you might look for things that make you feel good or bad in order to kind of keep tabs on your emotions. It's an interesting thing.

Caitlin Kindred: 9:58

There is also that added piece of rejection sensitivity dysphoria. This is not just being too sensitive, this is actually psychological pain or physiological pain, even like both, it's a response that is painful to any perceived criticism or rejection. So like when someone is making fun of you as a 12 year old and it's, it feels like it goes well beyond teasing and it's they hate me and it's. It's. It's a very intense. Um, I need everyone to follow me around and tell me that they like me every five minutes in order to think that someone's not mad at me. Right Sort of feeling.

Ariella Monti: 10:37

If you, if you want to trigger my RSD, just like, respond to a text of mine with a thumbs up and I am convinced, like it, like a like it could be genuine, like, yeah, no, got it. But I will take that as you hate me, right, and I don't want to be your friend anymore, right?

Caitlin Kindred: 11:04

ew, yeah, or like so do the thumbs up and say got it, and then put the thumbs up emoji in the response also, so that we all understand right, right, um. So that's all understand, right, right. So that's one example. Another one is like if your friend cancels, plans you go.

Ariella Monti: 11:26

Oh my gosh, they don't want to hang out with me and it becomes a whole thing, even though it's like no, they, they're handling a family emergency, right?

Caitlin Kindred: 11:31

Like, right, right, yeah, I got a car. I got it. Help me, a car right for me. It's like, oh, I didn't get as many listens on the podcast this week. Everybody hates my show. I'll never be successful. It's like the most extreme illogical reaction. But it is, it's real. And then it gets amplified. Rsd gets amplified by mom guilt. It's not just like did I pack the snacks? Oh, shoot it's. I forgot to pack the snacks. The number of times I have rethought about one instance where I may or may not have done something awkward and think that person hates me for life now. And they are, like I don't even remember that Ridiculous.

Ariella Monti: 12:23

So you're like good, because I'm going to go to my grave remembering it.

Caitlin Kindred: 12:27

Yep, and when I can't sleep at night and I'm worried about what people hate me I think I picture your face in that one time that your kid fell, anyway, because of me, because I was distracting you, anyway, that really did happen and we can talk about that another time. So the other another piece of this with with this emotional, whatever you want to call it is that people with ADHD brains do not have object permanence, right. So if it's out of sight, it is out of mind. But that also happens with emotions. So just like we forget a physical object exists, we also struggle to remember emotional issues and we struggle to remember that emotional states are not permanent.

Caitlin Kindred: 13:10

This is why if I'm sad, it's the only thing I am and I will never come out of it and I'll be sad forever. And then if I get distracted by a puzzle or something else shiny I don't know, then I forgot that I even was sad at all. Like this happens with grieving. Number of times that I've like re-felt the same grief over and over again about a person that I loved being now gone is, you know, an infinity loop, and that's because I forget in that moment to finish grieving. I don't think I ever actually finish because I get distracted by something else right and and that's.

Caitlin Kindred: 13:48

it's just a another treat of ADHD the whiplash thing, that's real. So if you're a parent with ADHD and your kid has maybe I don't know some unpredictable behaviors every once in a while, you could end up doing what I did with the stapler situation earlier, which is like yelling about a single Lego, like completely losing your mind over one Lego. All the Legos are put away except for the one that you see on the ground and you freak out about it, right. And then you have a shame spiral which puts you into that RSD. And, yeah, tiny irritants like misplaced keys or spilled beverages, or a student interrupting me when I'm saying hi in the hallway, or my partner breathing too loud, or your partner breathing too loud, my partner does not breathe too loud Could feel like an emotional emergency. You just are so triggered by that and ADHD brains struggle with frustration tolerance. So that's a big part of why we might freak out unnecessarily over something. And another fun aspect of this is that random sadness piece when the dopamine hit is gone right.

Caitlin Kindred: 15:00

So, you finish the project and now you're like, oh, now what? And then you get sad, and it's not just like you can't celebrate that you finished the project, it's that you have to be sad that now you don't have a project and so you go looking for another one, which is another dopamine hit. So one last thing I have to add in, because this is a podcast primarily for women. I know there are men who listen and bless you, but no Hormones and ADHD. Yay, we will get into that at some point.

Caitlin Kindred: 15:29

This is not the time or place, but especially for women who are in states of fluctuating hormones maybe perinatal, menopausal, premenopausal in particular and also girls going through puberty, especially early stages when all the hormones are out of control, those lead to estrogen drops and then dopamine crashes. So you're not just crying because bluey is sad, although bluey will make you cry at the drop of a hat. Um, it's real, it's biology. You're actually really upset about it and it's. You can't control any of it, right? Can't control, to remember, can't control the emotion. It's all kind of a mess okay, so never in control never in control.

Caitlin Kindred: 16:17

Just so bad for me because I need to control all the things anyway, um, okay, so I'm going to also mention some common adhd emotional triggers and how they might show up for moms in particular, before we get to some fun stuff. So, moms with adhd, do any of these sound familiar? Yeah, just nod along with me and ariel, you're allowed to say yes because you have a microphone.

Caitlin Kindred: 16:41

The overstimulation meltdown uh your kids plus barking dog, plus like too many noises. And then someone turned on the overhead light and it's like fluorescent, like done yes, okay, and then, like the ac kicks on and boom feeling too many things at once. Oh right, noise is my big one. The noise is where I get overstimulated, primarily.

Caitlin Kindred: 17:08

Okay the invisible labor resentment, right Like what's for dinner. Shut up. I will end you if you ask me one more stupid question. Or the RSD guilt spiral. Oh, the teacher didn't say hi, or she just was like hey and then walked away. I'm a terrible mother. I'm horrible. You know, I couldn't make it to the, to the. I didn't volunteer for the field trip, even though I said I might be able to volunteer, and now I'm the worst parent ever. The teacher hates me.

Caitlin Kindred: 17:41

If any of those you're allowed to check all three, it can be all the above, that's fine. Let's get into kind of what these look like. So overwhelm in particular is a big one. You have 47 things to do, so you do none of them and then you feel guilty about it. And then shame spiral.

Caitlin Kindred: 18:00

Or and this is mine, the multiple ask moment. Your kid is asking for a snack while you're folding laundry and the dog is barking at your feet or whining. If you ask me for something while I'm already doing another ask, I am triggered, I will rage and I might not say it, but I'm seething in my head and I've gotten much better about saying I can do one thing at a time and then ask me when I am done with this task. And in our house I have to say you'll know that I'm done when it's just going to happen right away. So yeah, that's the one. The overstimulation meltdown is another one. Again, the kids are loud, the dog is barking, the AC comes on and you cannot hear one more sound, otherwise you will lose it. Do you get those?

Ariella Monti: 18:58

I get like rage tears when that happens yes, yes, that, especially now that we're on summer break, oh, I, I even even stuff like I I hate to say it and I will be crucified for this, but in those times I can't even handle bluey being on because it has the same.

Ariella Monti: 19:24

It has the same sensory experience as having, like, multiple children in the house and yes, oh, oh, I cannot handle it. And that's where you start getting like the, the, the like the fighting, the dueling, like sensory needs, so like I need it to be quiet, but my kid needs, like the background stimulation so that he doesn't lose his mind and like we're just at a stalemate because he won't listen to music just listen to music.

Caitlin Kindred: 20:03

Uh, this is when I am a big fan and I am not sponsored. We've talked about this many times. I'm not sponsored, I, I use those loop earplugs. That's a big help for me just to like kind of dull the sound, um and yeah. And then if I have my big headphones on, like my noise cancelers, I will say like to every to the boys in my house I'm like I cannot hear you, I am not listening, don't talk to me, because I'm I'm not. I hate pulling the headphone off and ear, no, I'm not listening. I hate pulling the headphone off and, no, I'm not listening. I'm probably got my bilateral nature sounds because this is all too much for me so great Big fan of those.

Caitlin Kindred: 20:41

But it just depends on what your overstimulation is. I just find that sound tends to be a really big one for a lot of the years that I know. Yeah, ok, absolutely Another emotional trigger Time, blindness and deadlines. Um so I told you earlier that I was working on an assignment for a client of mine at 1020 at night. Why was I doing that? Because it was due at 11 the next morning and I had done stuff on it. I had been working on it but like tinkering and not completing, does that make sense?

Caitlin Kindred: 21:17

so yeah, yeah. So when just start earlier is like a joke, if you don't have any urgency, like that, and then you start to panic. And then when you're in panic mode some ADHDers are really good about being like I'm in panic, panic mode, I will get everything done right now. But others get in panic mode and get overwhelmed and then they have that paralysis.

Ariella Monti: 21:41

Shut down.

Caitlin Kindred: 21:41

Yeah, yeah. The other one that is an emotional trigger for a lot of ADHDers, especially women, is that invisible labor component, because you are the one managing. If you are the one who's the primary parent and you are the primary keeper of the home, you are managing anywhere from four to 50 bajillion tasks all at once and if someone asks you like what's for dinner, while you're managing everything else, that can be incredibly triggering and cause you to fly off the handle. And I personally think it's reasonable. But that's just me. So, like it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting set of triggers, but you can see, like just in this conversation, how everything sort of ties back together. Right, it's like one of these things causes the other one to happen and then they all just sort of domino effect and then it's like a domino where they somebody keeps re-putting them up and then they just keep going around in a circle.

Ariella Monti: 22:51

It's like it's happening over and over.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:54

So the next time your emotions feel like a toddler with a megaphone, just remember that it's not you, it's just your ADHD brain being extra. And it is okay if you yelled at a sock or a single Lego or a paper towel today, because anyone of us who can relate to this episode has been there before. So next week we're going to hand out the emotional armor for you how to short circuit your meltdown before you yell at that Lego or sock, and why you need a name for your ADHD brain and a good phrase for stopping your RSD in its tracks. Okay, so follow. If you haven't already, go into your podcast app you probably have your phone in your hand anyway. Just pick it up and then just make sure you hit subscribe to your feed so that you don't miss that episode, because the tools are really what's going to be the most helpful.

Caitlin Kindred: 23:48

We're going to be right back with some Circle Time. To be right back with some Circle Time. Hey y'all. Pov you find a diary exposing forbidden magic and the hot museum caretaker's life depends on you burning it, roots and Ink. The debut novel by Ariella Monti is the fantasy romance for rebels. Use promo code CK and GK to get 20% off your copy at AriellaMontecom. Again, that's all. Caps C, k, a, n, d, g, k for 20% off on AriellaMontecom. Get your copy for 20% off today. Okay, we are back and I need to know what your current hyperfixation is. I've talked a lot. Please talk.

Ariella Monti: 25:00

Carolina. It is mid-June-ish when we're recording, which means a lot of my flowers that I have planted over the past couple of years have started to bloom, which is fantastic, and I love having little cut flowers, but my actual hyper fixation is when I'm walking around my yard watering them going.

Ariella Monti: 25:18

Hmm, I wonder how that plant would do over here and right and then like thinning them out and digging them up, and now I'll. I'll do this like I don't know, like hour before bedtime. So now I'm getting all sweaty at the end of the day and I'm not wearing the right shoes and I have to find my garden gloves. But no, I got to do it because my you know your brain is telling you yeah exactly your brain.

Ariella Monti: 25:50

Yeah, and I right, and I need to move my body. So now I am digging up Yarrow so in one spot, so that I could go dig a hole in another spot and go. I wonder if this is gonna work over here. Let's find out.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:08

Oh, my goodness.

Ariella Monti: 26:09

Yeah, that happens Like, and I have to like physically stop myself from doing like, stop myself from doing like like much larger transplanting projects because, like I said, it's like 6, 30, 7 o'clock in the evening and that is not exactly the time that I should be digging up a tree to move it someplace else this is like when I was a kid and my mom would tell me to clean my room, but instead of cleaning my room, I would go on a quote unquote organizing spree and then everything would be out right and my mom would come down and be like what are you doing?

Caitlin Kindred: 26:49

Like this is not cleaning your room, like what are you doing? But I'm gonna organize it and I'm gonna rearrange it and you know new room, because my bed's in a different corner, and like all that Right.

Ariella Monti: 27:00

Right. Ridiculous and really she just wanted you to like pick up your socks and like make your bed Right.

Caitlin Kindred: 27:07

Right, and that would have been. I'm now understanding that I probably didn't know what a clean room meant.

Ariella Monti: 27:13

Right At that age. Yeah, yeah, yeah, instrument uh right at that age.

Caitlin Kindred: 27:16

Yeah, yeah, but yeah, so, yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 27:18

So just anyway, mom, you did great sorry, I don't mean to throw you, but I'm not. I swear um my hyper fixation. I've previewed this hyper fixation on instagram a couple times, but I have a new doggy in my life and she's so sweet. Her name is gracie. She is a princess and she is. When you adopt a dog who's older, you don't adopt a dog, you adopt a project, as my vet says, and she is a project. But, um, that's so. That's why she's a princess, because she's. She needs people taking care of her. But she's very sweet and I'll put a picture of her in the blog post if you'd like to see, or follow us on instagram and you'll get to see pictures of gracie and she's just so sweet. She's such a good girl.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:04

She's so cute, she's really cute, she's. She kind of looks like a boxer, but she's not at all. She's a. Basically she's a chili dog. She's a red healer, which is just another word for a cattle dog, and a lab mix. So, and some beagle there too, but she's super cute. She's got spots on her. She's precious. Anyway, that's mine. Everything dog, all the dog. She's so cute. Okay, what did you get done? Did you get anything finally crossed off your list?

Ariella Monti: 28:36

I went.

Ariella Monti: 28:36

I finally went to the dentist for a cleaning after like more than 15 years, so I'm going to be a little vulnerable here. So when we moved to North Carolina oh yeah, considering the date, it literally 15 years ago To the day yeah, to the day when we moved to North Carolina, we didn't have health insurance, let alone dental insurance. So obviously I wasn't going to the dentist if I didn't have dental insurance. And then when we would occasionally have spurts of time where we had dental insurance, now I was, a afraid to go and b had undiagnosed adhd. So making an appointment for a thing that I didn't want to do was just not gonna happen. Yeah, um, and basically that just happened for 15 years. But I finally went less I have to go back again.

Ariella Monti: 29:44

So they, they did like the cleaning and, thankfully, think genetics I really did not have any problems good like huge problems yeah yeah, um, but to do the cleaning they had to like numb one side of my mouth and then do, because they were like they needed to like really get in there so yeah, um, and so they have to do it like.

Ariella Monti: 30:10

So your whole mouth isn't numb, so I had like my one appointment a couple weeks ago and then next week I have to go and get the other side of my mouth done, and it was. I mean, I was still really, really anxious, but I have to give the essential practice, which is a new practice to me credit, because it was not as awful and terrifying as I thought it was, thought it was going to be. So that's great, that's so, yeah. So if you're, if you're a person out there who's like, especially if you've got adhd and you struggle with, like, with those hygiene tasks, like like you know, give yourself some grace and it will like, it will be okay, yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 31:01

It'll come together. Yeah, yeah, I mean this is why I'm convinced that I would love to have like a personal assistant who just like manages that kind of thing Right.

Ariella Monti: 31:12

What's the line?

Caitlin Kindred: 31:13

from that from Allie Wong, which is is like you know how much more successful I would be if I had a wife, like someone to make your appointments yeah so for sure.

Caitlin Kindred: 31:22

That's great, though I'm glad you did that. Oral health is super important. It's, it's a big deal, so I'm glad you're. You took some pretty proactive steps. That's amazing experiencing um, mine is that I finally oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed, nope, being vulnerable. Being vulnerable, it's fine. Okay, it's probably real for a lot of people.

Caitlin Kindred: 31:45

I hope I finally put away all the travel crap that I got out from the trip to london that I took in january january, just so we're clear. Like I, it's like all this, you know, it's like the this is my carry-on, like backpack thing that I have where I can put an entire amount of clothing, and then this is the like the mary mary poppins thing that I have for all of my toiletries, and it was just sitting in a laundry basket on the floor of my room. It's January and I finally put it away. In fairness, I'm going to blame my husband because it goes in the guest room and I don't like going in the guest room because it's like his personal like golf repository of stuff and there's just like boxes and the floor is a mess and I just I don't want to go in there.

Caitlin Kindred: 32:38

But I really could have put it away in the best experience.

Ariella Monti: 32:41

I just didn't do it, but I did it now. I am sure I still have stuff sitting out from our trip to New York, which which happened about a month ago, and the only reason why it will get picked up is because I'm going to georgia in a couple of weeks.

Caitlin Kindred: 32:59

Yeah, otherwise it would probably sit there for until christmas well, yeah, I'm being real, yeah, I'm, and I'm just gonna sit here and say like, if I'm going, if I had any trips on the horizon right now, I would have just left it out.

Caitlin Kindred: 33:14

The only reason I put it away is because I knew I wasn't going to use it in the near future. So, oh, yeah, okay. Well, I need a pat on the back for doing that. You get a pat on the back for going to the dentist, all the back pats. So, yes, you have toddler emotions and that's totally okay, but next week we're going to teach that toddler to use their inside voice. Yeah, yeah, or at least bribe it with some snacks, all good yes, and as jenny would say make good choices and take a deep breath because you probably need to love.

Caitlin Kindred: 33:52

You mean it bye.