Welcome and Introduction

Caitlin Kindred 0:00

Hello , hi , my friends , we are so glad you're here . Welcome to how to Be a Grown-Up . This is the how-to show for moms who've ever said I will remember that and then immediately did not remember that because we , as the meme says , I do not control the remember right . So thanks for sticking with us while we took a couple of weeks to just life , right . But today let me start that again . Let me say this I'm Caitlin With me today . Co-hosting for Jenny is Arielle Amante , who is the author of the incredible novel Roots in Ink and the forthcoming Bound by Ink , which , oh my gosh , the cover is so gorgeous , right , oh my goodness I'm about to make it my whole personality .

Caitlin Kindred 0:51

I know you have to . It's like deep purples and teals and it's so gorgeous , oh my gosh , okay . She's a velvet-voiced tornado of brilliance and kindness . Velvet-voiced tornado of brilliance and kindness .

Ariella Monti 1:08

Velvet-voiced feels like something I have to work into a book now .

Caitlin Kindred 1:14

I think you do , and I want the credit , just so you know . Absolutely , absolutely , oh goodness . Okay , so today we are talking about ADHD and emotional regulation , or dysregulation , so what I mean is , this is why ADHD brains feel so intensely common emotional triggers , including some that are specific to moms , and then , next episode , we're going to get to tools for emotional grounding and self-soothing . Before we do that , though , I want to remind

ADHD and Emotional Regulation Explained

Caitlin Kindred 1:53

our listeners that if you like your books , like you like your salsa extra spicy you can get .

Caitlin Kindred 2:00

Arielle's books for 20% off using promo code CK and GK on her website , arielleamonticom , which I've linked in the show notes . Okay , so let's get started before I'm worried that y'all are mad at me for taking too long with this intro , because that's real , okay , all right . Okay , so I have a story . All y'all know I was a teacher . I'm just going to say this now I'm a delightful human , right , and I'm a delightful human outside of the classroom and also inside of the classroom . And then a kid would come up to me and ask something innocuous like where's the stapler , or where do I put this ? You know , in January , when we've been doing it for months , and I will respond like that child has personally offended my ancestors , like where the F did that come from ? Like I wasn't mad .

Caitlin Kindred 2:56

I wasn't mad , I thought I was in a good mood . And the kid just asks something silly , like , or says hello , and I'm like , like , and it just comes out of nowhere and the way that I would describe it for myself is kind of like emotional whiplash . You know just , you're there and then this emotion comes out of nowhere . Um , when I was younger , I got called too sensitive or told that I couldn't take a joke when certain people I'm just going to say that made fun of me or you know like , horrifically bullied me , which is what was actually happening in school .

Caitlin Kindred 3:35

Or , and even now , like , when I'm angry , I will ruminate on the reason that I'm angry . I will spin around in circles in my head and repeat myself like a toddler who wears themselves out by running around in circles , and it means that sometimes I can't forgive or I can't move on and it makes me hold grudges . When I'm sad , it's like all that I am Right , like I'm not anything else . I can't see out of that sadness . There's no way of coming out of it . I'm going to be sad forever . And then , you know , just put a puzzle in front of me or get me into Canva and let me start doing something that occupies my brain and I will stop being sad and forget that I ever was sad , right , right . So does that sound ? It sounds like you can identify with that .

Ariella Monti 4:26

Oh yes , yes , I feel like this is just a daily part of my existence , like a like . It's just like a foundational part of how I walk through the world right , it's , and it is very whiplash feeling .

Caitlin Kindred 4:44

You know one minute you're one way and the next minute you're the other , and it's so intense . So I hope that if you are able to identify with any of those things that I just described about myself , you lost it . This is for you . So again , welcome to emotional regulation or dysregulation in the ADHD form . So here's what's going on . It turns out that ADHD doesn't just make us lose our keys , which I have recently done . It makes us completely lose our cool altogether , and there are ways to make yourself stop feeling like an emotional hazard . But we have to get through understanding why we are the way that we are first . So I have a bunch of sources for today . Of course , attitude Mag Chad , which is children and adults with attention deficit or hyperivity Disorder , and understoodorg , and then , if you haven't heard of the channel how to ADHD on YouTube , that's another great one that I would highly recommend . All of the sources and articles that I've used are in the blog post for this episode , so please go check those out . And , of course , us , because ADHD right , all right .

Ariella Monti 6:04

So we are our own experts on our own lives , but we are not doctors .

Caitlin Kindred 6:08

No , not at all , and please seek help if you need it . So ADHD emotions are not just big feelings . It's actually an emotional hijacking , like a neurological hijacking , and the sort of more official definition is when someone's emotions are all over the place , way stronger than they should be , lasting longer than usual , popping up at the worst times or leading to really intense reactions , and I would further add that sometimes these emotions actually interrupt your life such that you cannot do what is necessary to be done . Yes , so there is a . I'm going to read this quote that I really , really liked , which was by Dr Thomas E Brown , who's a clinical psychologist and director of the Brown Clinic for Attention and Related Disorders .

Caitlin Kindred 6:57

He says many with ADHD syndrome report disproportionate emotional reactions to frustration . Yes , a short fuse , a low threshold for irritability . I feel like I'm describing my child , but also that's me . Yep , you know , it's like you're a smoke detector and you go off for burnt toast and also a large fire and everything in between . Yes , what's interesting , though , is that this emotional dysregulation , this increased irritability , this whatever you want to call it is really common in ADHD adults , and children too , but it's actually not an official part of the diagnosis and is not one of the criteria in the DSM-5 , which is the current diagnostic manual for , yeah , what ? No , it's not in there . That's bananas , isn't it ?

Ariella Monti 7:54

It should be yeah , like I could see .

Caitlin Kindred 8:00

No , yeah , no , no , yeah no , I am speechless , which is hard for someone with ADHD . We're

The Science Behind Emotional Dysregulation

Caitlin Kindred 8:08

often not , but the thing that I think is interesting about that is it's so subjective . Emotions are so subjective . I don't know that you can put a science . You know it's already like mental health is already somewhat subjective in nature anyway , because of how people feel things . So I don't know that you could pin that in there , but it is a very commonly recognized trait , and when I was going through my evaluation , the irritability piece was probably one of the biggest red flags for my personal evaluator .

Caitlin Kindred 8:42

So let's talk about the science behind this . Adhd brains have differences in the amygdala , which is the emotional center of your brain , and the prefrontal cortex , which is the regulation center of your brain , so that's where you do all your logic and reasoning . So because of those differences , we have faster and stronger emotional reactions and a much slower return to baseline , like that might be why you're still ruminating on something three hours later , right ? And then , because we also have low dopamine , we seek out emotional hits , because dopamine helps you regulate your emotions , and so you might look for things that make you feel good or bad in order to kind of keep tabs on your emotions , and so you might look for things that make you feel good or bad in order to kind of keep tabs on your emotions . It's an interesting thing .

Caitlin Kindred 9:31

There is also that added piece of rejection sensitivity dysphoria . This is not just being too sensitive , this is actually psychological pain or physiological pain , even like both , it's a response that is painful to any perceived criticism or rejection . So like when someone is making fun of you as a 12 year old and it's , it feels like it goes well beyond teasing and it's they hate me and it's . It's . It's a very intense . Um , I need everyone to follow me around and tell me that they like me every five minutes in order to think that someone's not mad at me . Right Sort of feeling .

Ariella Monti 10:10

If you , if you want to trigger my RSD , just like , respond to a text of mine with a thumbs up and I am convinced , like it , like a like it could be genuine , like , yeah , no , got it . But I will take that as you hate me , right , and I don't want to be your friend anymore , right ?

Caitlin Kindred 10:36

ew , yeah , or like so do the thumbs up and say got it , and then put the thumbs up emoji in the response also , so that we all understand right , right , um . So that's all understand , right , right . So that's one example . Another one is like if your friend cancels , plans you go .

Ariella Monti 10:58

Oh my gosh , they don't want to hang out with me and it becomes a whole thing , even though it's like no , they , they're handling a family emergency , right ?

Caitlin Kindred 11:03

Like , right , right , yeah , I got a car . I got it . Help me , a car right for me . It's like , oh , I didn't get as many listens on the podcast this week . Everybody hates my show . I'll never be successful . It's like the most extreme illogical reaction . But it is , it's real . And then it gets amplified . Rsd gets amplified by mom guilt . It's not just like did I pack the snacks ? Oh , shoot it's . I forgot to pack the snacks . The number of times I have rethought about one instance where I may or may not have done something awkward and think that person hates me for life now . And they are , like I don't even remember that Ridiculous .

Ariella Monti 11:55

So you're like good , because I'm going to go to my grave remembering it .

Caitlin Kindred 12:00

Yep , and when I can't sleep at night and I'm worried about what people hate me I think I picture your face in that one time that your kid fell , anyway , because of me , because I was distracting you , anyway , that really did happen and we can talk about that another time . So the other another piece of this with with this emotional , whatever you want to call it is that people with ADHD brains do not have object permanence , right . So if it's out of sight , it is out of mind . But that also happens with emotions . So just like we forget a physical object exists , we also struggle to remember emotional issues and we struggle to remember that emotional states are not permanent .

Caitlin Kindred 12:42

This is why if I'm sad , it's the only thing I am and I will never come out of it and I'll be sad forever . And then if I get distracted by a puzzle or something else shiny I don't know , then I forgot that I even was sad at all . Like this happens with grieving . Number of times that I've like re-felt the same grief over and over again about a person that I loved being now gone is , you know , an infinity loop , and that's because I forget in that moment to finish grieving . I don't think I ever actually finish because I get distracted by something else right

Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD)

Caitlin Kindred 13:19

and and that's .

Caitlin Kindred 13:20

it's just a another treat of ADHD the whiplash thing , that's real . So if you're a parent with ADHD and your kid has maybe I don't know some unpredictable behaviors every once in a while , you could end up doing what I did with the stapler situation earlier , which is like yelling about a single Lego , like completely losing your mind over one Lego . All the Legos are put away except for the one that you see on the ground and you freak out about it , right . And then you have a shame spiral which puts you into that RSD . And , yeah , tiny irritants like misplaced keys or spilled beverages , or a student interrupting me when I'm saying hi in the hallway , or my partner breathing too loud , or your partner breathing too loud , my partner does not breathe too loud Could feel like an emotional emergency . You just are so triggered by that and ADHD brains struggle with frustration tolerance . So that's a big part of why we might freak out unnecessarily over something . And another fun aspect of this is that random sadness piece when the dopamine hit is gone right .

Caitlin Kindred 14:33

So , you finish the project and now you're like , oh , now what ? And then you get sad , and it's not just like you can't celebrate that you finished the project , it's that you have to be sad that now you don't have a project and so you go looking for another one , which is another dopamine hit . So one last thing I have to add in , because this is a podcast primarily for women . I know there are men who listen and bless you , but no Hormones and ADHD . Yay , we will get into that at some point .

Caitlin Kindred 15:01

This is not the time or place , but especially for women who are in states of fluctuating hormones maybe perinatal , menopausal , premenopausal in particular and also girls going through puberty , especially early stages when all the hormones are out of control , those lead to estrogen drops and then dopamine crashes . So you're not just crying because bluey is sad , although bluey will make you cry at the drop of a hat . Um , it's real , it's biology . You're actually really upset about it and it's . You can't control any of it , right ? Can't control , to remember , can't control the emotion . It's all kind of a mess okay , so never in control never in control .

Caitlin Kindred 15:49

Just so bad for me because I need to control all the things anyway , um , okay , so I'm going to also mention some common adhd emotional triggers and how they might show up for moms in particular , before we get to some fun stuff . So , moms with adhd , do any of these sound familiar ? Yeah , just nod along with me and ariel , you're allowed to say yes because you have a microphone .

Caitlin Kindred 16:14

The overstimulation meltdown uh your kids plus barking dog , plus like too many noises . And then someone turned on the overhead light and it's like fluorescent , like done yes , okay , and then , like the ac kicks on and boom feeling too many things at once . Oh right , noise is my big one . The noise is where I get overstimulated , primarily .

Caitlin Kindred 16:41

Okay the invisible labor resentment , right Like what's for dinner . Shut up . I will end you if you ask me one more stupid question . Or the RSD guilt spiral . Oh , the teacher didn't say hi , or she just was like hey and then walked away . I'm a terrible mother . I'm horrible . You know , I couldn't make it to the , to the . I didn't volunteer for the field trip , even though I said I might be able to volunteer , and now I'm the worst parent ever . The teacher hates me .

Caitlin Kindred 17:13

If any of those you're allowed to check all three , it can be all the above , that's fine . Let's get into kind of what these look like . So overwhelm in particular is a big one . You have 47 things to do , so you do none of them and then you feel guilty about it . And then shame spiral .

Caitlin Kindred 17:33

Or and this is mine , the multiple ask moment .

Emotional Triggers for ADHD Moms

Caitlin Kindred 17:38

Your kid is asking for a snack while you're folding laundry and the dog is barking at your feet or whining . If you ask me for something while I'm already doing another ask , I am triggered , I will rage and I might not say it , but I'm seething in my head and I've gotten much better about saying I can do one thing at a time and then ask me when I am done with this task . And in our house I have to say you'll know that I'm done when it's just going to happen right away . So yeah , that's the one . The overstimulation meltdown is another one . Again , the kids are loud , the dog is barking , the AC comes on and you cannot hear one more sound , otherwise you will lose it . Do you get those ?

Ariella Monti 18:30

I get like rage tears when that happens yes , yes , that , especially now that we're on summer break , oh , I , I even even stuff like I I hate to say it and I will be crucified for this , but in those times I can't even handle bluey being on because it has the same .

Ariella Monti 18:56

It has the same sensory experience as having , like , multiple children in the house and yes , oh , oh , I cannot handle it . And that's where you start getting like the , the , the like the fighting , the dueling , like sensory needs , so like I need it to be quiet , but my kid needs , like the background stimulation so that he doesn't lose his mind and like we're just at a stalemate because he won't listen to music just listen to music .

Caitlin Kindred 19:35

Uh , this is when I am a big fan and I am not sponsored . We've talked about this many times . I'm not sponsored , I , I use those loop earplugs . That's a big help for me just to like kind of dull the sound , um and yeah . And then if I have my big headphones on , like my noise cancelers , I will say like to every to the boys in my house I'm like I cannot hear you , I am not listening , don't talk to me , because I'm I'm not . I hate pulling the headphone off and ear , no , I'm not listening . I hate pulling the headphone off and , no , I'm not listening . I'm probably got my bilateral nature sounds because this is all too much for me so great Big fan of those .

Caitlin Kindred 20:14

But it just depends on what your overstimulation is . I just find that sound tends to be a really big one for a lot of the years that I know . Yeah , ok , absolutely Another emotional trigger Time , blindness and deadlines . Um so I told you earlier that I was working on an assignment for a client of mine at 1020 at night . Why was I doing that ? Because it was due at 11 the next morning and I had done stuff on it . I had been working on it but like tinkering and not completing , does that make sense ?

Caitlin Kindred 20:49

so yeah , yeah . So when just start earlier is like a joke , if you don't have any urgency , like that , and then you start to panic . And then when you're in panic mode some ADHDers are really good about being like I'm in panic , panic mode , I will get everything done right now . But others get in panic mode and get overwhelmed and then they have that paralysis .

Ariella Monti 21:13

Shut down .

Caitlin Kindred 21:14

Yeah , yeah . The other one that is an emotional trigger for a lot of ADHDers , especially women , is that invisible labor component , because you are the one managing . If you are the one who's the primary parent and you are the primary keeper of the home , you are managing anywhere from four to 50 bajillion tasks all at once and if someone asks you like what's for dinner , while you're managing everything else , that can be incredibly triggering and cause you to fly off the handle . And I personally think it's reasonable . But that's just me . So , like it's , it's an interesting , it's an interesting set of triggers , but you can see , like just in this conversation , how everything sort of ties back together . Right , it's like one of these things causes the other one to happen and then they all just sort of domino effect and then it's like a domino where they somebody keeps re-putting them up and then they just keep going around in a circle .

Ariella Monti 22:24

It's like it's happening over and over .

Caitlin Kindred 22:26

So the next time your emotions feel like a toddler with a megaphone , just remember that it's not you , it's just your ADHD brain being extra . And it is okay if you yelled at a sock or a single Lego or a paper towel today , because anyone of us who can relate to this episode has been there before . So next week we're going to hand out the emotional armor for you how to short circuit your meltdown before you yell at that Lego or sock , and why you need a name for your ADHD brain and a good phrase for stopping your RSD in its tracks . Okay , so follow . If you haven't already , go into your podcast app you probably have your phone in your hand anyway . Just pick it up and then just make sure you hit subscribe to your feed so that you don't miss that episode , because the tools are really what's going to be the most helpful .

Caitlin Kindred 23:20

We're going to be right back with some Circle Time . To be right back with some Circle Time . Hey y'all . Pov you find a diary exposing forbidden magic and the hot museum caretaker's life depends on you burning it , roots and Ink . The debut novel by Ariella Monti is the fantasy romance for rebels . Use promo code CK and GK to get 20% off your copy at AriellaMontecom . Again , that's all . Caps C , k , a , n , d , g , k for 20% off on AriellaMontecom . Get your copy

Preview of Next Episode and Closing

Caitlin Kindred 23:59

for 20% off today . Okay , we are back and I need to know what your current hyperfixation is . I've talked a lot . Please talk .

Ariella Monti 24:32

Carolina . It is mid-June-ish when we're recording , which means a lot of my flowers that I have planted over the past couple of years have started to bloom , which

Circle Time and Host Conversations

Ariella Monti 24:39

is fantastic , and I love having little cut flowers , but my actual hyper fixation is when I'm walking around my yard watering them going .

Ariella Monti 24:51

Hmm , I wonder how that plant would do over here and right and then like thinning them out and digging them up , and now I'll . I'll do this like I don't know , like hour before bedtime . So now I'm getting all sweaty at the end of the day and I'm not wearing the right shoes and I have to find my garden gloves . But no , I got to do it because my you know your brain is telling you yeah exactly your brain .

Ariella Monti 25:23

Yeah , and I right , and I need to move my body . So now I am digging up Yarrow so in one spot , so that I could go dig a hole in another spot and go . I wonder if this is gonna work over here . Let's find out .

Caitlin Kindred 25:40

Oh , my goodness .

Ariella Monti 25:42

Yeah , that happens Like , and I have to like physically stop myself from doing like , stop myself from doing like like much larger transplanting projects because , like I said , it's like 6 , 30 , 7 o'clock in the evening and that is not exactly the time that I should be digging up a tree to move it someplace else this is like when I was a kid and my mom would tell me to clean my room , but instead of cleaning my room , I would go on a quote unquote organizing spree and then everything would be out right and my mom would come down and be like what are you doing ?

Caitlin Kindred 26:22

Like this is not cleaning your room , like what are you doing ? But I'm gonna organize it and I'm gonna rearrange it and you know new room , because my bed's in a different corner , and like all that Right .

Ariella Monti 26:32

Right . Ridiculous and really she just wanted you to like pick up your socks and like make your bed Right .

Caitlin Kindred 26:40

Right , and that would have been . I'm now understanding that I probably didn't know what a clean room meant .

Ariella Monti 26:46

Right At that age . Yeah , yeah , yeah , instrument uh right at that age .

Caitlin Kindred 26:49

Yeah , yeah , but yeah , so , yeah .

Caitlin Kindred 26:50

So just anyway , mom , you did great sorry , I don't mean to throw you , but I'm not . I swear um my hyper fixation . I've previewed this hyper fixation on instagram a couple times , but I have a new doggy in my life and she's so sweet . Her name is gracie . She is a princess and she is . When you adopt a dog who's older , you don't adopt a dog , you adopt a project , as my vet says , and she is a project . But , um , that's so . That's why she's a princess , because she's . She needs people taking care of her . But she's very sweet and I'll put a picture of her in the blog post if you'd like to see , or follow us on instagram and you'll get to see pictures of gracie and she's just so sweet . She's such a good girl .

Caitlin Kindred 27:37

She's so cute , she's really cute , she's . She kind of looks like a boxer , but she's not at all . She's a . Basically she's a chili dog . She's a red healer , which is just another word for a cattle dog , and a lab mix . So , and some beagle there too , but she's super cute . She's got spots on her . She's precious . Anyway , that's mine . Everything dog , all the dog . She's so cute . Okay , what did you get done ? Did you get anything finally crossed off your list ?

Ariella Monti 28:08

I went .

Ariella Monti 28:08

I finally went to the dentist for a cleaning after like more than 15 years , so I'm going to be a little vulnerable here . So when we moved to North Carolina oh yeah , considering the date , it literally 15 years ago To the day yeah , to the day when we moved to North Carolina , we didn't have health insurance , let alone dental insurance . So obviously I wasn't going to the dentist if I didn't have dental insurance . And then when we would occasionally have spurts of time where we had dental insurance , now I was , a afraid to go and b had undiagnosed adhd . So making an appointment for a thing that I didn't want to do was just not gonna happen . Yeah , um , and basically that just happened for 15 years . But I finally went less I have to go back again .

Ariella Monti 29:17

So they , they did like the cleaning and , thankfully , think genetics I really did not have any problems good like huge problems yeah yeah , um , but to do the cleaning they had to like numb one side of my mouth and then do , because they were like they needed to like really get in there so yeah , um , and so they have to do it like .

Ariella Monti 29:42

So your whole mouth isn't numb , so I had like my one appointment a couple weeks ago and then next week I have to go and get the other side of my mouth done , and it was . I mean , I was still really , really anxious , but I have to give the essential practice , which is a new practice to me credit , because it was not as awful and terrifying as I thought it was , thought it was going to be . So that's great , that's so , yeah . So if you're , if you're a person out there who's like , especially if you've got adhd and you struggle with , like , with those hygiene tasks , like like you know , give yourself some grace and it will like , it will be okay , yeah .

Caitlin Kindred 30:33

It'll come together . Yeah , yeah , I mean this is why I'm convinced that I would love to have like a personal assistant who just like manages that kind of thing Right .

Ariella Monti 30:45

What's the line ?

Caitlin Kindred 30:45

from that from Allie Wong , which is is like you know how much more successful I would be if I had a wife , like someone to make your appointments yeah so for sure .

Caitlin Kindred 30:55

That's great , though I'm glad you did that . Oral health is super important . It's , it's a big deal , so I'm glad you're . You took some pretty proactive steps . That's amazing experiencing um , mine is that I finally oh my gosh , I'm so embarrassed , nope , being vulnerable . Being vulnerable , it's fine . Okay , it's probably real for a lot of people .

Caitlin Kindred 31:18

I hope I finally put away all the travel crap that I got out from the trip to london that I took in january january , just so we're clear . Like I , it's like all this , you know , it's like the this is my carry-on , like backpack thing that I have where I can put an entire amount of clothing , and then this is the like the mary mary poppins thing that I have for all of my toiletries , and it was just sitting in a laundry basket on the floor of my room . It's January and I finally put it away . In fairness , I'm going to blame my husband because it goes in the guest room and I don't like going in the guest room because it's like his personal like golf repository of stuff and there's just like boxes and the floor is a mess and I just I don't want to go in there .

Caitlin Kindred 32:11

But I really could have put it away in the best experience .

Ariella Monti 32:14

I just didn't do it , but I did it now . I am sure I still have stuff sitting out from our trip to New York , which which happened about a month ago , and the only reason why it will get picked up is because I'm going to georgia in a couple of weeks .

Caitlin Kindred 32:31

Yeah , otherwise it would probably sit there for until christmas well , yeah , I'm being real , yeah , I'm , and I'm just gonna sit here and say like , if I'm going , if I had any trips on the horizon right now , I would have just left it out .

Caitlin Kindred 32:46

The only reason I put it away is because I knew I wasn't going to use it in the near future . So , oh , yeah , okay . Well , I need a pat on the back for doing that . You get a pat on the back for going to the dentist , all the back pats . So , yes , you have toddler emotions and that's totally okay , but next week we're going to teach that toddler to use their inside voice . Yeah , yeah , or at least bribe it with some snacks , all good yes , and as jenny would say make good choices and take a deep breath because you probably need to love .

Caitlin Kindred 33:25

You mean it bye .