Caitlin Kindred: 0:28

Hello, hello friends, we're so glad you're here today. Welcome to how to Be a Grown-Up. This is the how-to show with hosts who have medication that helps them be grown-ups. So, yeah, so.

Ariella Monti: 0:42

I love you, edsonis, uh-huh.

Caitlin Kindred: 0:45

Yep Better living through pharmacy, life right Through pharmacology. Okay, I'm Caitlin and with me today co-hosting for Jenny is Ariella Monti, the author of my favorite spicy novel Roots in Ink, and she is a velvet voice tornado of brilliance and kindness.

Ariella Monti: 1:07

Oh, I love it. Thanks, that's a good one.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:11

Mm-hmm, Sometimes it's just a matter of taking a bunch of adjectives and smooshing them into a thing right, that's basically my writing strategy.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:23

This is why I need series, Otherwise I will go off on rantages. Okay, so today we're continuing that series on ADHD with a conversation about burnout and, in particular, masking. So I have a story that I'm going to share with you, dear listener, and you because you're here suffering on this episode with me, Ariella. Okay. So here's the story.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:51

While I was teaching here in Texas before, Jenny and I really got super close but we had started being friends and had each other's phone numbers. At this point, I remember her sending me a text that said this is why and I'm going to insert a comment here our friend right, this is why Ashley and I Ashley's, our friend want to be you when we grow up. So this is why we want to be you when we grow up. Like, okay, I just remember thinking in that moment I get this text and I'm like what this is? This is insane. Why does anybody want to be me when they grow up? And I bet Jenny is sitting there going like I still want to be Caitlyn when I grow up. I could hear her being like still, but now she knows more about what the chaos that is who I am.

Caitlin Kindred: 2:43

But I truly, especially in that moment, felt like I was barely holding on to my life. Right, I was a new mom at that point. My son was probably less than a year old, or maybe he was like right around a year, year and a few months. Okay, I was new to Texas. I'd only been there for a few months in a new job, which means first year teacher vibes all over again. And if you know, you know I had no money, my license plates were still Colorado plates, which means the tags were crazy, expired and I had a sinus infection.

Caitlin Kindred: 3:23

Like I remember all these things being like why I do not have myself together, why does anyone think that I have myself together? So the compliment, which is still one of my favorite compliments I've ever received, is felt unearned in that moment. Right, Like why, who on earth wants to be this hot mess? But I can see their point when I look back on it. I looked like I had my life together. Right, I would come to work, I did my work. I was not a complete crying mess all the time at work, even though I wanted to be. It's my brain that was scrambled up and I was at that point and I still am super great at masking, and here's why this matters for moms. Society expects women, especially moms, to be organized, emotionally regulated, self-sacrificing All qualities that ADHD brains are not wired for.

Ariella Monti: 4:31

No.

Caitlin Kindred: 4:36

All the things we are bad at right exactly. It is a surefire way to burn yourself out, which is something that moms simply cannot afford to do. This is why we did an entire series on self-care. Moms cannot let burnout be something that they experience. So, before we get into more of this, I do need to say as always, please remember that I am not a doctor, I am not a psychiatrist or any type of health professional, mental or otherwise.

Ariella Monti: 5:01

Nor am I. I am a yoga teacher, and that is not the same as a mental health professional, no matter what your yoga teacher might tell you, unless, your yoga teacher is actually a mental health professional and my mental health professional. No matter what your yoga teacher might tell you, unless, your yoga teacher is actually a mental health professional and my mental health professional happens to be a yoga teacher. But that is an exception.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:21

Right. No matter how many essential oils she tries to sell you, she is not a doctor. Okay, so nothing against essential oils. They make my house smell great, but they are not medicine.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:31

So my perspective here is my own. I did my research, I promise. But much of this is coming from my personal experience and I hope that if you happen to see yourself in what I'm talking about today, that you feel validated. Remember that you're not alone and seek help from a mental health professional if that's something that you need. Okay, so my sources for today are myself, obviously, and a couple of articles from Attitude magazine which we've talked about in the past ADD Attude magazine. One of them is why masking is a form of self-sabotage, by Sharon Salin, who's a doctor, and also Natalie Pezentes, and another one that I used was rising from ADHD Burnout, a recovery kit for women, by Kate Moruseff, and these are both linked in the blog post for this episode. So please go check that out, along with some other resources that I'll mention along the way.

Caitlin Kindred: 6:28

So what is ADHD masking? I mean, think about what a mask is. Now apply that to your life and you know those commercials with like, the, the depression, the antidepressant commercials, with the person who, like, wears the little smiley face piece of paper on a stick. It's a mask. Yeah, so this quote from one of the articles really kind of hit me. It was, um, exactly what I described in the message from jenny. I appear very organized to the outside world, but only because I spend an immense amount of time and energy putting everything together.

Caitlin Kindred: 7:06

Yeah, right that's relatable masking is a coping strategy, okay, so what it means is you're camouflaging your ADHD traits to fit in. Maybe that's forcing your focus, hiding your forgetfulness, mimicking neurotypical habits or mimicking other people's behaviors, and lots of neurodivergent people do it. It's common in autism as well, but again, we talked about that. Overlap is really common, but there are lots of other neurodivergent types that will do this. It starts out being helpful again, coping strategy but it starts to get exhausting, and we'll talk about why in just a minute. It starts to get exhausting and we'll talk about why in just a minute. Masking is more common in women than it is in men, for a couple of reasons Again one of the ones I already mentioned. We'll get to.

Caitlin Kindred: 8:05

But there's this general fear of being called flaky or lazy or too much right. Nobody wants to be called these things. They're negative, it doesn't feel good. Or too much right. Nobody wants to be called these things. They're negative, it doesn't feel good. The other is that societal conditioning that I mentioned a little bit ago to be pleasing and competent, and all of that tends to create certain types of behaviors or habits that are compensatory for these ADHD symptoms. Okay, so some examples might be you stay late at work to over-prepare for a meeting that you have the next day because you were distracted by something so you had some time. Blindness on some other tasks, right? Or you say I forgot my planner, instead of saying I actually lost it again. You know, my fifth one this year, whatever, no big deal. So you're trying to avoid shame with a lie. Okay, mimicking other mom's routines, even when they don't work for your brain. They don't work for your brain. Mimicking other behaviors, as I mentioned, maybe dressing the same way or showing up with the same new Stanley water bottle, whatever it is. Sometimes these behaviors sort of come out and they're common among moms.

Caitlin Kindred: 9:30

The issue is that there are a lot of negative consequences that come along with masking the first one of them being delayed and or sabotage diagnosis of ADHD, and this one kind of speaks for itself here. And one thing I always said to my students was if you go to the doctor for a stomach ache or a broken bone but you don't actually tell the doctor what's wrong with you, how is the doctor supposed to give you the treatment that you need? The same goes for your academics. If you don't tell me what help you need, I cannot support you.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:06

I think the connection between that metaphor and mental health is pretty obvious here. Yeah, I agree, you have to be vocal about your struggles, okay, and show them to people. You can't hide them, otherwise you won't get the help you need. So another consequence is the inability to find things that work for their brain. So, because you maybe don't realize that you've sabotaged your diagnosis, or you don't realize that you have ADHD, or you haven't accepted that that's what's going on with your brain, you can then not figure out what actually works for you, right, like when you put your faith in this new planner that's gonna be the one.

Ariella Monti: 10:57

That's the one.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:58

Right, this is the one that will make everything better because it doesn't have dates on it. So when I skip months at a time, it won't make me feel bad, Except then you stop using it because it doesn't have dates on it, Right? Like there's all of these things that you know you end up putting your faith in that don't actually work, Right? Another consequence this is a big one, and we've talked about it before is that comorbidities piece. Other mental health disorders often develop as a result of masking, because all of that worry and stress of covering up your ADHD behaviors, your symptoms, who you really are, can lead to anxiety and depression and burnout. This one I feel like someone was maybe talking to me directly and is shaking me at the moment, so I'm just gonna put this here and Jenny is gonna be like I told you, girl Perfectionism. So I have to read this quote because it's just so good.

Caitlin Kindred: 12:07

Overly sensitive to their own perceived faults, people who mask may also be hyper-aware of those traits in others and even develop an intolerance for them. Perfectionism combined with imposter syndrome can also intensify rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria If something isn't perfect, then it can be seen as another failure, adding to a sense of personal worthlessness, In case you didn't need therapy before, you might now after that quote. So in the article one of the articles I mentioned earlier there's one woman who said she spent so much of her early years being late to stuff that now she's obsessed with being on time and when other people are late she views that as a personal attack on herself.

Ariella Monti: 13:01

Yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 13:02

Hi RSD, like that's what. That is right, it's someone else's tardiness is not a reflection of you. I know the phrase honor your time is a big one right now, and it's true. You do need to honor people's time At the same time. Someone else's lateness is not someone telling you that you are not worth their time.

Ariella Monti: 13:21

Right, so just keeping that in mind.

Caitlin Kindred: 13:23

But also it's very like Hector projector to hate someone else's tardiness when you know you have a history of tardiness, right? Okay, another one. Another consequence of masking, and this one is also very real for me Imposter syndrome, poor self-esteem and this sense of like who even am I feeling right and I'll explain why. So, as I mentioned, masking is a coping strategy, and people with ADHD mask because they feel inadequate. The failures stick out in their brains more so than any win. The wins get overlooked, and we're talking about things like not taking credit for your work.

Caitlin Kindred: 14:09

Saying something was a team effort when it really wasn't because you did all the work. Calling something good luck when really the good luck was that you worked hard. Right, it's more than humility. It's completely dismissing any contribution that you made to the success of whatever the victory was. And then all of that, all that does is make you feel like bad about yourself, because it's it. You are not responsible for any of the success. It's not helpful, and all of that time literally pretending to be someone else could just be whoever you're around in that moment creates this very distorted sense of who you are. So when you realize that who you think you are is just a masked version of your real self. You can see how that might make someone feel incredibly lost in who. They are Right that one hurts a little bit. Again, therapy is something. I need to go find my new therapist.

Ariella Monti: 15:22

I mean, like how often have I just like dropped something and you and our other mom friends would be like Ariella, that's amazing. And I'm just like yeah, yeah, yeah, but Like all the time I quite literally just did this.

Caitlin Kindred: 15:41

Yesterday. I built this web page for a client. It is, if I may say so, pretty great. I worked really hard on it for days and it's about to go live and I did get some input and feedback from people on the team and so I can't say I did everything myself and I, you know, got some support from AI and things like that and lots of research, whatever. But ultimately I did put this page together and the first thing I said was oh no, it's a team effort.

Ariella Monti: 16:16

Not really, but okay.

Caitlin Kindred: 16:22

Yeah, me and deep seek hanging out together, but like otherwise, no, like I really did most of the work myself and I literally just did it. Like what, Anyway? So there is a link also between masking and burnout, and I did mention burnout earlier as one of the consequences of masking, and here's how this connection works. Masking is hard and people don't realize how difficult it actually is, because if they're not doing it, they don't get it Right. It's like teaching If you're not in the trenches you just don't know.

Caitlin Kindred: 16:52

So it's really hard to maintain and it keeps people from getting to know who you really are. So you kind of block people out a little bit, and again, that includes yourself. So it gets a little bit lonely and when you're on the verge of burnout you need people to support you. Right, and it only takes you so far because you really can't mimic your way into successful work and social habits. Mimic your way into successful work and social habits, yeah, yeah. And I'd like to define burnout here, because I think we need to know what it actually is.

Caitlin Kindred: 17:29

Burnout is chronic stress. Let's try that one more time. Burnout I'm going to leave that in, just so you can hear me flub my word. Burnout is chronic stress plus emotional depletion and feeling ineffective altogether. Okay, so ADHDers tend to burn out faster because masking requires extra mental effort.

Caitlin Kindred: 17:51

It's like speaking a second language all day long. I don't know if you've ever seen I don't know how familiar you are with Modern Family, but I love that show and there's a scene where Sofia Vergara says do you know how smart I would be if I could speak in my own language? What I'm thinking in a language that isn't my own? So I'm doing twice the thinking right, and that's really what's happening here. I don't know about you, ariel, but I personally feel like I have to work so hard just to get things crossed off my to-do list and I'll watch my boss and she's like cranking out stuff. She's like, well, I did this draft of this page and then I wrote this blog and then I worked on this and and I'm going to be back in a minute I'm like how did you do three things in five hours? And here I am still working on the same one. How did you do that? I admire it and I question, like how she does that, because I'm working twice as hard to get one thing done.

Ariella Monti: 18:56

Yep, yeah, it happens to me all the time, especially thinking like oh, I've got four, a block of four hours to work. Today I should be able to say finish an entire chapter. Like, yeah, I could do that. And then it takes my brain so much work to get those words like from my mind to my fingertips and onto the screen and like the four hours is gone and I only have like 200 words written down. You know, like it's.

Caitlin Kindred: 19:38

It's really hard. And there's another piece of this too that you just mentioned, where you just said get a chapter done. But there's so much that goes into that and our brains don't think of it as one task. We think of it as like the 15 tasks. I have to sit down, I have to power my computer up, I have to open up the document, I have to this and this and this and this and this. Oh, I have to have this window in this position because I work on this window, but I look at this one for all my reference.

Caitlin Kindred: 20:07

There's so many little things that require your attention that that one task it's not that you didn't get anything done, it's that you can't estimate how much time the other little tasks are going to take you. You have time blindness. We have no sense of how long things take. And then also there's it's more effort for us to get through the little things too. So that can totally cause burnout, as I've mentioned before. The phrase, the work between the work that's what gets us right. And then you add to it that there's the emotional labor of suppressing emotions, like your RSD meltdowns. That is also exhausting. There is that sense of anxiety that comes from underperforming. That's exhausting. There is ADHDers struggle with emotional regulation as it is, we go hot, pulled really quickly. It's seriously zero to 100 on some things. Or we don't quite know what our emotions are until something triggers us and we're actually angry and we didn't know we were angry. So that can lead to a lot of burnout for people. And then you add for moms moms don't get true downtime most of the time. You add for moms, moms don't get true downtime most of the time. No, no, recovery requires rest. Moms don't get rest. So I just want to put out some signs. You might be feeling burned out and not just tired. I'm going to put this here Constant overwhelm, irritability and numbness to what's going on around you, physical symptoms like headaches, insomnia, getting sick, often like stomach aches, things like that, and then also just the general sense of feeling like a failure, even though you're doing a lot of things. Those are burnout symptoms. Please seek help and get rest if you are experiencing them. So I think the big thing we need to talk about here is how to actually unmask yourself if you find yourself exhibiting these behaviors. So here are some practical strategies to reduce your masking, conserve your energy and do so without coming unglued. So one you're going to try to identify your masks.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:24

Adhders are terrible at metacognition, as in thinking about your thinking, so you might actually have to, like, write some things down here. You might say where am I performing as a normie? Where am I performing as a normie neurotypical, instead of honoring my brain, like when is it the Caitlyn show, right? When do I do that so that I can identify that as a trigger, whatever that is that's causing me to be a normie in those moments, I can write that down as a space to stop and reconsider. How am I trying to keep up appearances? Am I posting pictures of my house in this perfectly staged, clean area and then behind me is a mess For me, no, my house is just a mess and you can come right in and it's fine, but I will be embarrassed that you're seeing it. So there's that.

Caitlin Kindred: 23:16

But what parts of yourself do you actively find yourself hiding from others? This is something I do in private. Nobody else knows about it and I won't ever talk about it. That's a masking media, right? If it means watching pimple popping videos, I do that too, so don't worry about it. Okay, so the next thing you need to do so. Gross is drop the shoulds, for example. I'm so bad at this. This is so hard. It's so hard. For example, if visual clutter, like what I was just talking about, doesn't bother you, then don't apologize for it because it doesn't bother you, right? If it's in your house, you don't need to apologize for it because you live there, not someone else. They don't like it, then they don't have to have a house that has visual clutter in it. There we go. Should is a bad word in the mental health space. Maybe you've heard the phrase. Stop shooting all over yourself. It's true and it's real, and it just brings shame on yourself, so you really need to let it go. I loved this resource from Attitude Magazine. It's called Squirrel Bingo.

Ariella Monti: 24:36

I'm in, I know right, me too. It's an anti-shame game. It's literally a bingo game.

Caitlin Kindred: 24:45

So that you can, yeah, feel shame about certain things. I linked it in the blog post for the episode. I'm gonna start playing it because, first of all, gamifying anything for an ADHDer is a win, and then, yeah, anything that's gonna make me not be ashamed of things I don't need to be ashamed of is another win. So I'm going to do it and let me know if you play. I want to hear about it. Put it in the DMs, share a picture, tag us, I want to know.

Caitlin Kindred: 25:13

Another thing you need to do to unmask is practice self-compassion. We have talked about this so much on this show, but I need to share this quote from an ADHD coach. Her name is Linda. I am going to say her name wrong. I think it's Rosalie, but might be pronounced a different way. So sorry, linda, apologies in advance. Her quote is your masks have protected you in the past, but release them with love. So it's time to start practicing talking to yourself in a kind way. I think I've shared this before and you've probably heard me say it, but my friend Elsie did not like it when I said something negative about myself and she would correct me by saying don't talk about my friend that way. I'd be like oh my gosh, I'm so stupid and she's like don't talk about my friend.

Ariella Monti: 25:58

That way, I'd be like oh my gosh, I'm so stupid and she's like don't talk about my friend that way and I'm pretty sure I've said it to you, oh yeah, and I picked it up and now I say it to the child when, yeah, when he says stuff like that, yeah, I said don't, don't talk about my friend that way, and then I have to explain what that means and yeah, I I will say to my son and I'll say don't talk about about my son that way, like you know, I mean you could change it that way.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:21

But, um, I have started saying this to not just my friends, uh, not just my family, but also myself, cause I gotta be my own friend sometimes, right? Uh, so I will say don't talk about my friend that way. To myself, when I hear myself saying things like that and I actually did it to myself as I was writing the notes for this episode it's like, oh my God, yeah, it was an interesting situation. Okay, remember that part of self-compassion and self-care is self-advocacy. Asking for help is not only okay, but it's a good thing and it will ease the pain of taking off that mask a little bit.

Caitlin Kindred: 27:14

The problem with self-advocacy for ADHDers is that we often have a hard time identifying what our needs actually are. So I like to say it's independence, it's really not, it's like fake independence. Yeah, I don't really know, but stopping to think what am I afraid of and what do I need may help you find some solutions for whatever's going on. And something that's scary for people, including myself and other people I know, is re-evaluating your boundaries that may come as a result of you asking yourself what do I need? It might mean that you need to re reevaluate your boundaries around a certain person or for yourself, like what keeps me safe? Things like that, and that can be a little bit frightening. And just putting that out there as a warning to people who are doing this and don't forget that your sense of humor has a real place in self-compassion. Laughing just feels good. Lean into opportunities to do that so that when your ADHD symptoms show up in a funny way, it's okay to laugh about it. I mean, that's really why Ariel and I are doing this, because the things our brains do.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:36

I cannot tell you how many cabinet doors I have left open just in the past couple. It's a lot. I think we started calling it the ghost in my house. Uh-oh, the ghost left the cabinet open. Oh, she needs a name. It's got to be a woman. It needs, like an old lady name. Help me think of one Mildred.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:55

Yes, okay, mildred. Left the cabin open again. Dang it, mildred, okay. The next one is outsource and adapt. So use tools like meal kits and automatic bill pay and other things like that instead of forcing traditional symptoms or symptoms systems for yourself. Automatic bill pay is my favorite thing in the world. Otherwise, I would forget to pay everything, and I often do forget to pay bills that come to me, even though I know that they're there. I will see them, and then they're away from my brain because they're not right in front of me anymore.

Caitlin Kindred: 29:34

So and again, if you're just starting this journey of unmasking and trying to find things that work for you, I would say there is no better hyper fixation than learning about your own brain. Honestly, empower yourself with information. Attitude magazine is a fabulous resource if you don't know where to start. I love reddit always for tried and true, practical things that people are willing to share with you. Like it is okay to go and be hyper fixated on your brain for a little while to learn about yourself and what your needs are. Um, and my another one, one of my favorites find your people, and I'm going to say this with love.

Caitlin Kindred: 30:20

You masked for a reason and that's because there are people out there who are mean and crappy and, yes, it's true that people might react negatively as you start to unmask yourself and show who you really are, but this is not middle school and you are not obligated to carry the weight of other people's opinions about you, so those opinions should not dictate how you live your life. Now, sometimes you're in a situation with work you have to tolerate someone's opinion of you. It's your boss, it's someone whatever. I get that. However, that person does not matter in any other capacity but your job. So leave that mess at the job and separate yourself from it as soon as you walk out the door and separate yourself from it as soon as you walk out the door.

Ariella Monti: 31:18

Okay, and adding to that, you might find, as you learn about your ADHD, that you have already surrounded yourself with other adhd people who just don't know that they're adhd.

Caitlin Kindred: 31:39

and as you all start to unmask together, it just brings you closer when there was some meme about that that I saw that was like all of my friends have ADHD and I don't, but I have. But I see this in common, and the person was like hate to break it to you, pal, but there's a reason. All of your friends have ADHD, right, because you also have it. All of you weirdos get together. All of you weirdos get together. Okay, that also might mean, in addition to the weirdos who love you, that you find other ADHD friendly people who don't judge. Maybe that's a professional therapist or an ADHD coach If any are listening, I need help. Maybe that's other ADHDers, maybe that's especially other ADHDers who maybe you identify with in some way maybe same gender norms, same sexual orientation, racially, something like that might be also really good crew for you to be with. And you know, hopefully you have other people in your life Like my partner does not have ADHD. However, he is very compassionate and understanding and is encouraging me to ask for the things that I need and advocate for myself, and I hope that that's someone, even if they're neurotypical. You have someone in your life like that.

Caitlin Kindred: 33:08

And the last one I'm going to also say with love and I really want to swear here, but this is a non-swearing show, so I'm going to say it as best I can Schedule rest like it's a meeting. If you're experiencing burnout, burnout, recovery requires actual rest, not watching pimple-popping videos in your bed on YouTube late at night, caitlin. So, mama, I say this to you with all the love in the world, and here's where I want to swear Go the F to sleep, do not stay up, do not take your alone time at night when everyone else is asleep. Do that for 15 minutes and go to bed, put nap on the family calendar and then go the F to sleep. Do it, your brain needs it and nothing is more important than your rest, my dear. Not one single thing, because literally, moms cannot afford to be burnt out. So I'm nodding Like I agree with.

Ariella Monti: 34:10

I agree with you as I continue to ignore the get ready for bed alarm that goes off. You're smart to have an alarm. Sunday through Thursday I mean, but I ignore it like every single day.

Caitlin Kindred: 34:24

So We'll get better at it. We'll get better, okay. So, in conclusion, as a seventh grader would finish their essay In conclusion. So, in conclusion, as a seventh grader would finish their essay in conclusion, no.

Caitlin Kindred: 34:40

To wrap this up, I have to say masking think of masking like Spanx folks. It's uncomfortable and who cares if you're wearing it? Because, as the very intelligent founder of the we Do Not Care Club, if you don't know what I'm talking about, go look it up. It's hilarious Says we do not care. So no one cares if you wear your mask. If you're around the right people, like put it down, I'll be your friend, so reach out. So I'm curious if you're listening to this. If you have a mask that you'd like to drop, I would love to hear about it. Please again, send us a DM, tag us, tell me about it, because I'm super curious and let's take a quick break. And let's take a quick break. Hey y'all.

Caitlin Kindred: 35:34

Pov you find a diary exposing forbidden magic and the hot museum caretaker's life depends on you burning it, roots and Ink. The debut novel by Ariella Monti is the fantasy romance for rebels. Use promo code CK and GK to get 20% off your copy at AriellaMontecom. Again, that's all caps C-K-A-N-D-G-K for 20% off on AriellaMontecom. Get your copy for 20% off today. We are back now and, because we're talking about adhd, we've renamed our circle time stuff to hyper fixations. Right now and tell me all about it I don't know see metacognition.

Caitlin Kindred: 36:45

We're so bad at it, okay. Well then, I'll share mine. Are you ready?

Ariella Monti: 36:48

I'm sure, well. Well, now I'm looking at the script there it is there, your hyper fixation is definitely an ongoing hyper fixation of mine, so let's talk about it okay, my script says burbs, burb.

Caitlin Kindred: 37:09

I I've had this thing with, like, trying to make sure my bird feeders in my yard are always full. Um, I have bird feeders that squirrels cannot get into. Until mother's day when I got one of those bird feeders that has a camera on it, and I'm so into this. You guys like and you know that bird is the word song that they have all the time in family guy, I've been singing that but, like with burb, it would be irb instead of instead of bird. Uh, I cannot get enough of this camera.

Caitlin Kindred: 37:45

And then the squirrels started eating all the food and these little squirrels, like they scooped all the food out of it and onto the ground. It was teamwork. I saw two of them one of them on the camera I'm watching scoop everything onto the ground. So I go out and check and, yep, there it is just scooping everything onto the ground, emptying the entire feeder, and the other squirrel is underneath, like what is happening here. So now I now I've bought new spicy food because birds are immune to capsaicin, which is what the spice is, and squirrels are not. So I'm hoping that by putting that in the feeder with the camera, the squirrels learn to stay away from it and only the birds eat it.

Caitlin Kindred: 38:29

But I have seen blue jays. Only the birds eat it, but I have seen blue jays. I have a cardinal couple that shows up and there's a little girl who is just as all sassy as can be and she puts her mohawk up and shows me her butt on a regular basis and then one time she looked in the camera like who's in here and it was really funny. I have a pair of doves that show up, pair of uh doves that show up, but I'm hoping that, with a diff with this new spicy food, that other birds show up too, because they they tend to like this. It's like suet based or something, I don't know. Whatever. I don't know anything about this, but I've I'm hyper fixated on these birds, burbs. Anyway, if I, I will actually start posting some of these pictures because you guys, some of them are so fun they are, they are pretty amazing aren't they so cool oh my gosh, yeah, yeah.

Ariella Monti: 39:22

I'll have to also share with the, with the crowd, the picture of the squirrel in my window feeder oh, and that was wild.

Caitlin Kindred: 39:33

How did it get up that high? And there's nothing for to like launch itself from. I don't understand.

Ariella Monti: 39:38

Yeah, so this you know, for the, for the readers, readers, for the listeners who don't know what my house looks like.

Ariella Monti: 39:46

Yeah, so my office has a window and on it's on the second floor and on that window I've put one of those like suction cup feeders and it's been there, if I want to say, like two-ish years. It's been here for a while and there is so maybe like six or so feet in one direction there is like a little like overhang for our porch, and then on the other side, maybe like four or so feet away, is the overhang for the side door. So there is like something that they can kind of launch themselves from. But there there's like nothing else, there it's just the windowsill. So they are launching themselves, or I think it's just one of them launching herself. I'm pretty sure it's a female launching herself from the overhang to the feeder and just hanging out having a blast yeah, you have to share that picture you have to because it's pretty wild right and the crafty the funniest part about it is that there are easier feeders to access.

Ariella Monti: 41:11

Like, like I purposely put food out in For the squirrels. For the squirrels, like, I give them peanuts and I purposely put you know feeders that are not squirrel-proof out there, so that if they do dump it like, it's fine. But yeah, this one, my worry is that these suction cups are gonna give out and the entire thing is gonna come crashing down to the ground.

Ariella Monti: 41:41

I mean, I think from from what I've learned from you know those mark rober videos with like the squirrel olympics and stuff yeah, the squirrel will probably be okay but still I'm like waiting for this thing to go crashing down onto the pavement below. That would be awful.

Caitlin Kindred: 41:58

Well, it's not the fall that'll kill it, it's the bounce. So whatever. But we've been talking about my birb obsession and that's where this whole picture came from and it is wild, so I hope you share it because it's pretty crazy. I have no idea how it and it had to launch itself like that's the only thing it could have done. Right, all right, uh, things that we finally accomplished this week. Do you have a thing?

Ariella Monti: 42:28

I do, but I can't remember. I'm I'm actually looking at like my brain dump. I'm like what did I do this week? Like I definitely did stuff, but what was it? Like, what did I do?

Caitlin Kindred: 42:43

Like I'm sure I did something that I've been putting off, but like what I don't know, as I'm saying things like ADHDers are terrible at thinking about their thinking like what, like terrible at taking credit for things that we accomplish, like but this is why.

Ariella Monti: 43:00

This is why, like, you got to write down all the things that you've accomplished, because otherwise, like, it's just never going to happen. I guess the one thing that does the the one thing I did early how's this? The thing that I did early was reformat. So I've got my two novellas are a certain, there are certain trim size. They're like five by seven or whatever, and I decided to reformat them so that they are smaller. They're four by six ish, which is what we call like mass market paperback size. So those are like the, the paperbacks that, like, your mom or grandma used to get at like the grocery store with like on the cover.

Ariella Monti: 43:44

Yeah, so they're like that size. So my cover cover designer was going to work on those this month and I actually got into my software and I went and reformatted everything so I could send her some templates and I was like, yes, I got done early, nice, and then she got done early. She worked on it like two weeks early, so now that's amazing yeah, now I can get those those out yeah, that's great.

Caitlin Kindred: 44:18

I'm thinking like purse sized, like that's what I have in my head is like you could buy it at the grocery store and then you could shove it in your purse, that's exactly one of the that's.

Ariella Monti: 44:28

That's basically why they were made like that so that they could be like shoved. They could be discreet and hidden. Hide your smut in your bag right, but it's what it's got.

Caitlin Kindred: 44:39

Fabio on the cover like yeah, that's fair.

Ariella Monti: 44:42

There's nothing discreet, no, no, anyway that's why you have to hide them in your bag right, that's true.

Caitlin Kindred: 44:49

Yeah, couldn't read them on the subway like some people are doing these days. Anyway, uh, my thing is and I can't even take all the credit for, because I literally, literally cannot is planning my child's birthday party again. That's why I can't take credit. This is not me being humble here, this is no. He actually did this and then I designed the invitation, of course with my child's input, and, like, put all the information together and now the only thing I have left to do is find the missing email addresses for the parents and send it out. Now that hurdle is going to be a problem and I know I need to do it. So it's actually like in my head that I need to do that today, because my son's birthday is in a month and it's over the summer and I want families to have enough time to plan and decide and whatever. So, anyway, I'm very proud of myself for at least getting that far in the planning.

Ariella Monti: 45:48

Yes, progress is wellness right right, you, uh, you are already farther than I am with my son's birthday, which is only like a week after your son's birthday and more than that, though, is it?

Caitlin Kindred: 46:04

it's two weeks? Yeah, it's two weeks.

Ariella Monti: 46:06

You got time two weeks you got time I mean, I know what. Thankfully he just wants a like splash, like a backyard splash party.

Caitlin Kindred: 46:16

And.

Ariella Monti: 46:16

I was like cool, give me the name of like five friends, yep, and thankfully I think I know all those five people.

Caitlin Kindred: 46:27

So that's great. Yeah, I do not know these people and I also am telling I'm going to just if you're planning a birthday party we've talked about this before, we've done like birthday party episodes Please inform the parents whether or not they need to stay. This is a self-contained location and we are at the stage of life where parents do not need to stay anymore. So I am telling all the parents we don't know't know each other, like, feel free to drop your kid off and then leave and then just come back, come back in two hours, like it's fine. So it's one of the benefits of not knowing the parents as your child gets older is that you can then say we're all going to be in this one space in public and you don't have to stay. If you don't want, you can watch them jump on trampolines, I don't care, but you don't have to stay. So, anyway, accomplishments checked off. So we're gonna wrap this episode by saying, as always, as jenny would say, make good choices and love you mean it. Bye, bye.