Caitlin Kindred: 0:29

Hey friends, a few weeks ago, jenny and I sat down with Valerie Probstfeld, host of the To Mom Is To Love podcast. I had met Valerie through Gretchen Schozer, who's the co-host of the quote stuff that goes on in our heads podcast, and I absolutely loved Valerie's energy, her positivity and, importantly, her grace when it comes to all things parenting. Her mission with her podcast is to support, encourage and empower each other as imperfect moms. Aren't we all to love as a verb? In this episode we talked with Valerie about our belief that laughter is a love language, about managing our classrooms with humor, back to the future love, how becoming a mom has changed us and, of course, the important issue of school safety, which you know we feel very strongly about. Jenny and I had a lot of fun with this interview and I hope you enjoy listening. Now on with the show.

Valerie Probstfeld: 1:44

Hello, I am so glad you're here. Welcome to the To Mom Is To Love podcast. My name is Valerie Probstfeld. I am a nurse practitioner as well as an imperfect mom who loves. In fact, I thought I would be an A-plus mother before becoming a mom. However, as the years passed, I realized love is the only thing I can control. We have more power as moms than we realize. In five generations from now, you will have approximately 30 descendants, and the number keeps getting larger and larger. Motherhood, in my opinion, is the most important job in the world. Our mission at 2Mom is to love is to support, encourage and empower each other as imperfect moms. To love as a verb. Come join us as we navigate our shared name, live our verb and rediscover our identity. Please subscribe, share and follow, and I would love it if you leave a review so more moms can come join us. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, as well as TikTok and YouTube. Please follow along with us on this beautiful journey we call motherhood.

Valerie Probstfeld: 3:04

I am thrilled to have Caitlin and Jenny on the show with me today. They are best friends and educators, and they love to put their teaching skills to good use by discussing topics that adults want to know more about but feel like they can't ask. They are all about giving their listeners practical tips that grown-ups need to live their best grown-up lives. And Caitlin and Jenny. They live in Austin, Texas, where I used to live as well, and are moms themselves. I just love listening and learning to their podcast, with plenty of laughs as well as helpful information where I feel like I'm talking to fellow mom friends. So I know you guys are going to love listening to them as well, and thank you so much for being on the show today, Caitlin and Jenny. It's an absolute pleasure.

Jenny GK: 3:51

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

Caitlin Kindred: 3:52

Thanks for having us. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. I've been listening to you for a while and so it's truly just so much fun. I'm Caitlin. I am a middle school teacher turned marketer. I met Jenny when I was subbing for her at the middle school that she's now an assistant principal at, and we kind of just sort of hit it off in the first like four minutes of our exchange. Like I didn't even know this woman's name and I was like I need to meet and talk to this person. I'm a mom to an eight-year-old His name's Sam and I'm a wife to a pretty awesome dude whose name is Bryce. We've been together for 20 years. We were babies, we were 20 when we got together, so we've been together that whole time.

Jenny GK: 4:36

I'm Jenny. I have two children, a 13-year-old and a six-year-old, girl and boy. I am also married to a rock star. He thinks he's one. Even when we were looking for a new house for our family, I was like okay, but you need to have a room for your music with the door.

Jenny GK: 5:01

And padded walls. I'm an assistant principal, so, caitlin, I fell in love with her when she sent me an email as a substitute and said and I'm a nursing mom, so I'll need a place with a locked door and electricity. And I was just like, yes, lady, get it. It's called advocating for yourself. Yes, okay, this is my person. And so then I bullied her into getting a full-time job and I said, yeah, I know you've been subbing while you had the baby, but it's time for you to go back to work full time and work with me. Um, and so the next year we were on the same team together and, um, during the shutdown, we did the uh, jim and pam thing and had an earbud in all day long, talking to each other while we were doing our lives oh, or like.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:52

Okay, I really do have to concentrate. I'll call you after this class is over, but it was when we were initially quarantine teaching. It was like all asynchronous, right? So you would like plan your lessons and come up with all this stuff and we would be talking to each other while trying to work. And I don't know, I have ADHD. I can't do more than one thing at a time. Well, let's, well, but whatever, um, and I'd be like Jen, I gotta, I gotta go. And then it would turn into like us on the phone for three hours while I'm cleaning toilets, doing laundry and doing all this stuff around the house, probably not working on grading the stuff that needed to be graded, um, and it was just fun, like we just had fun on the phone, and that was a time when nobody was having fun, right? No, quarantine sucked. It was horrible.

Jenny GK: 6:37

And for us to have that tiger King movie.

Caitlin Kindred: 6:39

That was pretty good, that was pretty amazing gonna finish that line because that's inappropriate, um, but we just we figured, if we were having this much fun in a time when it nothing was fun, why wouldn't other people enjoy having fun with us? And again, I was like cleaning toilets and I'd be like Jen, did you know you can take the seat off of the toilet and it's not hard and you can clean under that? Did you know that? Yes, like you can use a quarter and like, unscrew it and it'll pop right off and and you can clean under that. Did you know that? Yes, like you can use a quarter and like, unscrew it and it'll pop right off and then you can clean all the boy stuff out from it. And we'd be like, oh my god, did you know that? I did not know that? And we were just teaching each other adult grown-up things that were so helpful. And I was like why didn't anyone tell me how to do this? And that's really kind of where it came from.

Caitlin Kindred: 7:31

And then then the name is because, like CK and GK came from, jenny and I would plan field trips together because we both were teaching seventh grade and I was teaching Texas history, which means they have to take the obligatory trip to the Alamo and but she was like, okay, well, you do that, and then I'll go with you and we'll take the kids to the Wynn Museum afterward and it'll be a full day of learning. But it'll just be a big field trip, because why go to San Antonio for two hours? Like that's just not realistic when you live in Austin. So then I had to send out an invitation because we needed chaperones and I was like, okay, she's known as GK, that's how all the kids call her. So the invitation was like hey, do you want to come?

Caitlin Kindred: 8:14

And always comes from a place of yes, right, like her intent is to come from this place of being helpful. And I was completely insane and I was like we're we should do this. It'd be so fun. Do you listen to my favorite murder? It could be like that, only not true crime and gruesome and horrible and famous or famous, right. And, and she was. She was like no, like we are doing this, this, that I remember her distinctly saying no, like I just like changed jobs and like my whole life is in chaos and I'm stuck at home with my whole family. We are doing this podcast. It was like this is great and she's. I have to thank her for it, cause that place of yes is really one of the things that lets you know what kind of person she is.

Jenny GK: 9:15

So it's a check-in for us, right? Like we would easily say oh, I'm too busy, let's cancel, let's meet for coffee next week, okay, and then next thing. You know, it's been six months since we've seen each other. But sitting down to record the show, we chit chat beforehand, we have a fun conversation on the mic and then we have another little closing afterwards and it's a chance for us to connect and it's like a date that we make.

Caitlin Kindred: 9:42

Absolutely, and we've both said this before. But laughter is, I believe, one of the love languages. That is not mentioned in that love language book, right, like, maybe it's included in quality time or whatever, but I don't. I, I really think that it's a completely missed way to connect with other people. And I, jenny and I, we might not talk for a couple of weeks or I might send her like 15 memes and not get an answer, because that's one of my other love languages, of languages, but she will come back on, we'll be together and we will laugh together and it is an instant reconnection, and so I think that is another piece of this because I don't get to see her.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:20

I don't work with her anymore, so having this dedicated time to laugh with her is self-care for myself and self-care, I think, for the both of us.

Valerie Probstfeld: 10:31

Because you mentioned memes, what's your favorite meme?

Caitlin Kindred: 10:34

I will send everything from like a sweet little kitten being like this is what I look like when you don't answer me to the raunchiest, most inappropriate, because they just make me laugh. I don't know if I have a favorite meme, but I do really love certain meme accounts. Meme, but I do really love certain meme accounts. Openly Gay Animals is a very fun one, very hilarious and not inappropriate, despite the name sounding like it could be. It's just not, and I love the. It's like 30 AF or something like that. It's something that's like geared towards millennials. So I don't know if I have a favorite meme. I just have lots of accounts that I really, really love. That's great.

Jenny GK: 11:15

Yesterday I was in a conversation where I referenced both Smokey and the Bandit and White Christmas.

Valerie Probstfeld: 11:22

Okay, and people didn't know what you were talking about.

Jenny GK: 11:25

But I said, oh well, my husband wants to road trip across the country like Smokey and the Bandit. And one guy in the conversation got it and he said, oh well, he probably needs more than a minivan for beer, he probably needs a semi.

Jenny GK: 11:36

So he made the joke and then I said, yeah, well, he's gonna go to Vermont and not a lot of people go in Vermont uh, go to Vermont in the winter, except the Haynes sisters and the same guy caught the reference. But the other people in the room were like what are you talking about?

Caitlin Kindred: 11:50

it's like I'm sorry guys because you're gen x, you're a millennial in the wrong generation.

Jenny GK: 11:55

I was just born at the wrong time because I thought everybody knows the Haynes sisters go to Pine Tree Vermont for Christmas. But thank goodness this other guy was in the conversation so that I didn't look a hundred so you saved he saved your jokes is really what he was doing.

Caitlin Kindred: 12:19

We're elder, the geriatric millennials as my mother likes to call us but um my, I believe she's Gen X because she was an army kid, and so the only things that she saw on the base were like mash and like shows like that designing women like this woman grew up on designing women and mash.

Jenny GK: 12:30

Yeah, I lived outside the country country when before the internet and really like as satellite tv was just becoming popular, so we had, when we were um, living in a non-english speaking country, we had one tv channel that was english and it was run by the base and they had to meet everyone's needs. It's the same thing with the radio, like there would be an hour of country and then there'd be an hour of rap and like. So the TV, like in the middle of the afternoon, is Saturday Live.

Valerie Probstfeld: 12:59

I love how you have such a variety too of your episodes how to handle heated political conversations at family gatherings, to addressing student teacher concerns or just new friendships as an adult and I love how, like they're all really relevant and you handle them with such grace and also like just such humor and great information too.

Jenny GK: 13:22

Thanks. I mean thank you.

Caitlin Kindred: 13:23

It's kind of what comes up in our lives right, yeah, I wish someone had taught me how to do these things. And it's hard because I'm coming from a place of being a public educator and I'm like these are skills that I really wanted to teach and didn't. And is that a failure of the public education? And the answer is no, right, because you, you just have to encounter things as you get older. But, um, we're teachers at heart. It's our it's in our nature to help other people. Um, we're teachers at heart. It's our, it's in our nature to help other people. Um, the aha moment is one of the best things in the world, right, johnny can speak to that too. It's like you teach a kid something and they're like oh, you just had this little epiphany and it's the best feeling in the world to help a kid have that moment. But I think adults need those moments too, right? So if I can help someone with a topic that they're struggling with, that just feels really good, right, like why not?

Jenny GK: 14:21

Well, and like I've said on the show before, downward social comparison, at least you're not me Like. I made the mistake. I learned it the hard way. Let me at least help you out a little bit.

Caitlin Kindred: 14:33

So yeah, and I mean I also full disclosure I steal a lot of ideas from places where I'm like this is genius. I read this article. It's amazing. Let's share it Right With all 22 of them and like a lot of it is like something we'll obviously put our own stink on because of our own experiences, but, like, there's some great ideas on, like Reddit and you know, e-magazines that I will totally just beg, borrow, steal from, because people have genius ideas that need to be shared in other ways. So you know, there's there's a lot to draw from and there's a lot of issues that moms in particular are dealing with right. That's why our topics can be so varied, because moms are responsible for everything, like, why not, and why not try to help as many of those issues as possible?

Valerie Probstfeld: 15:33

What do you enjoy most about teaching?

Jenny GK: 15:36

I always wanted to be a teacher. Well, I wanted to be a teacher since I was in middle school. In elementary school I really wanted to be a cartoonist. And God bless my parents because they fed into that and they got me all the books and set me up at a desk so I could draw cartoons. And they knew that this is a face. She's not actually gonna want to draw comics, oh bless. But. But I thought I was gonna be the next Charles Schultz, right? Um, didn't happen. So, um, the thing that floated for me was what do I want to teach? For a while it was music, and then I realized I wasn't actually that talented in music, which is why they put me on the podium as a drum major.

Caitlin Kindred: 16:22

They were like get that horn out of her mouth she cannot play a note, but that girl can conduct like none other man.

Jenny GK: 16:31

Let me tell you what she's got a really loud voice. She can, she can count out loud for the kids, like get her up there well, the drum major, that's a big deal.

Valerie Probstfeld: 16:38

That's like you're on she's she's the ultimate band nerd.

Jenny GK: 16:42

Yeah, oh yeah, queen of the banners um, but I was like, okay, if I'm not talented enough to like play music, I'm probably not good enough to teach it. So, um, then I was like vacillating between math and science, and my really good friend's dad was a math teacher and I was like, hey, you know, I'm trying to decide should I study science or math? The thing is, science is always changing, there's new discoveries, and I feel like math isn't always like that. He goes oh no, no, no, no, no. The way that we multiply matrices now is very different than how I did it in the 70s.

Jenny GK: 17:18

I was like Okay, science.

Caitlin Kindred: 17:21

Stop. That is the most boring statement I've ever heard.

Jenny GK: 17:26

But I love math and because of a confidence issue, you know, I was like oh, I don't know if I can pass the biology exam. I want to, I want to try something. So I took the math test first because I knew I could kill it. And I did, because it's middle school math and I do love math, and I was able to pass it no problem. And that built me enough confidence to go through and get my certificate in all the other core subjects as well as special education, and so my first positions were in science and special ed and over the years math got added to the pile. I've spent time teaching teachers how to teach math and now I have the opportunity to work with kids and adults in a completely different way as a principal. But the thing that keeps me coming back, like Caitlin said, are the stories. These kids are hilarious.

Caitlin Kindred: 18:22

They're the best. They're the best, I think. I mean I talked about the aha moment. Like to be clear, teachers live for the aha moment. I remember distinctly I was teaching Texas history and we talked about Sam Houston, which kids understand that connection between Houston and Sam Houston. What they don't understand is that the next president here I'm going to nerd out a little bit the second president of Texas was a man whose last name is Lamar, and we live on an area close to Lamar Boulevard and the kids were like, wait, lamar? And I was like uh-huh, uh-huh, and I'm like, wait for it, wait for it. And they're like, just like the street. And I was like, yes, children, just like the street. And they're like and the school? And I was like, yes, and just like the street. And they're like, and this, the school? And I was like, yes, and just like the school, lamar middle school on Lamar boulevard. Yes, they are both named for president Lamar and they don't the amazing, like it's something that little where you used to see them go, oh my gosh, and they just love it so much it's.

Caitlin Kindred: 19:29

You live for that as a teacher, right? But now I also have this story of my, of my students being like are you kidding me? And like the hilarious moment of them coming to the realization of what that connection actually is. There was one time I had to throw out my entire lesson because a classroom full of students did not know that a chinchilla and a chimichanga were not the same thing. I literally had to throw out the entire lesson for the day and I spent 45 minutes going through all of the those words that sound um. I had to explain. It wasn't a chich manga, it was a chimichanga, it was a chinchilla. It somehow turned into maracas. I had a conga line. It was the most wild. But those are the things you live for like. You live for stuff like that because it's what makes the job so fun.

Caitlin Kindred: 20:26

And then you get to go to your colleagues and tell them this kid just used the word moobs to describe cows, udders what oh my gosh and you and you get it because it's genius, of course, but he's like but I don't know what they're called moobs and I was like say that again, yes, but yes, it makes sense. Yeah, absolutely Because, because what on earth that's what gets. And then you go tell your friends who are also teachers, who get, just how hard that job is and you get to laugh about that. Oh yeah, and I'm not in the classroom anymore, yeah.

Jenny GK: 21:06

Just this week, I have injured my knee.

Caitlin Kindred: 21:10

Wait, tell everyone how you injured your knee.

Jenny GK: 21:14

Because this is my favorite part of the story. I was delivering presents from the administrators to teachers and I jumped into a teacher's classroom. Mary Chris, oh, my knee made a noise when I landed it's not funny, but I crashed up it's hilarious, I was jumping for joy and landed in pain. Only you would do that.

Valerie Probstfeld: 21:36

Only you would do that, and that's the thing.

Jenny GK: 21:38

Is like everyone's laughing at me, but anyhow, yeah. So one of the kids asked me he's like what do you think is wrong with it? And I'm explaining. I said, well, I think my meniscus is torn and that keeps the bones from touching and so it's causing a little bit of pain right now because I have bones touching bones and my knee doesn't really want to bend the way it's supposed to. This kid in empathy Okay, this was not a joke, he was being serious. 13 year old boy oh, miss, I think that happened to my pinky.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:14

No, I have never laughed harder. I've never laughed harder than I did as a classroom teacher. And it's even funnier when they're middle schoolers, because when they're in elementary school you really can't laugh at some of the things they say, because it's beyond inappropriate. It's like you know, my mom says that when you go to jail, you and you're like I'm sorry, wait, what, like, what are you telling me? But when the middle schoolers it's. It's funnier with them because one they they are being genuine. Most of the time they don't know they're being funny.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:43

But the other piece of it is there are kids who slowly start to realize what just happened, and so they're all in on the joke with you and they join in and it just it becomes this wave of like realization across the room where you're like yup, now we're all getting the humor.

Jenny GK: 23:01

The kids are great, the kids are great, you can find amazing, and it doesn't matter where. You are Right, because I teach at a school right now that has high tuition, but I have also taught at a school in an area where everyone was getting lunch. Kids are kids and they are funny. They are funny and they. They love to laugh too.

Valerie Probstfeld: 23:21

No, I need to say something because it's not at all relevant to anything, but I feel like I need to because Sounds like our show. Yes, yes. So when I lived in Texas, I moved from the Chicago area. I'm originally from the Chicago area, now I'm back in the Chicago area. But I lived in Texas for a while, in Austin and in Dallas. But when I was in Austin I needed to change my car license plate to a Texas license plate and, uh, the guy was dating at the time which he ended up being my husband later on. He said because he's from Texas. He was like oh, when you get a Texas license plate, they give you a cowboy hat. And I, I didn't know, I love him and so once I got it, I'm fully expecting them to give me a cowboy hat. They didn't give it to me. So if anyone has any influence, I really feel like that would be a good thing to do that is amazing.

Jenny GK: 24:25

I walked up the stairs and you know, hobbled up the stairs and you know, hobbled up the stairs this week carrying a drone. Oh wow, the robotics class had ordered.

Jenny GK: 24:37

Oh okay, and it's in the box. It says drone on it. It's very clear that that's what I'm carrying. And one of the kids says Miss GK, why have a drone? I said, well, you know, with my knee like this, it's really hard for me to walk around. So I thought I would just observe your classes by flying the drone around. Stop, oh my God. And this quartet of young women look at me like that's really creepy. Don't do that.

Caitlin Kindred: 25:02

I was like I'm kidding, I'm delivering this to robotics Like it's like guys, you really think I just sit at my desk like fly a drone around, like how annoying would that be to those teachers that hate you and the kids would behave because they know I'm coming right, yeah, exactly that's so good, yeah, I tell them all the time look, I've taught middle school longer than you've been alive, Right?

Jenny GK: 25:32

And so I have become sadly like this is something I can put on my resume the master of the deadpan, Like I can do the joke in my serious voice. So they literally believed me that this was going to happen. I was like no guys, come on, You've known me for a while. Do you really think I'm going to fly a drone around? Right? I don't even know how to use the remote. Can we just please? I'm just bringing this to the robotics class.

Valerie Probstfeld: 26:00

He loves drones, but and I used it for a Halloween costume because I like got back to the future and but uh, I couldn't find like a Jennifer Parker outfit.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:10

Oh my gosh, you're speaking. Jenny's language right now.

Jenny GK: 26:13

It's my favorite movie of all time. I may or may not have made my husband dress up on two occasions to go see it in the theater. The gender what you need for the Jennifer Parker outfit is the floral jeans. Once you get those, you've nailed it.

Valerie Probstfeld: 26:27

That is so true. Well, and I didn't have that, so I felt like it wasn't working. I'm like I'm just not pulling off Jennifer Parker in the way that I feel like she needs to be represented.

Jenny GK: 26:42

I'm thinking of set brothers like it's okay that my mask isn't movie quality like so merit.

Valerie Probstfeld: 26:53

He like got um, you know, like a red vest for marty.

Jenny GK: 26:57

So I just right, right, right yeah.

Valerie Probstfeld: 26:58

So I mean that's easy, I'm just gonna be doc, bro, like I'm just gonna do that. I have a lab coat put that on and then I'm like I don't have anything like for the, the car like with the whole thing. So I took the drone remote control, perfect done. My son was like what are you doing?

Caitlin Kindred: 27:16

you would have blown doc brown's mind with that drone.

Valerie Probstfeld: 27:20

I would love to hear becoming a mom has changed you or like, what have you learned since becoming a mom?

Caitlin Kindred: 27:28

I mean, oh, this is hard. It's going to sound a little, um, uh, selfish. Maybe not selfish. Um, I'm going to talk about myself here. Uh, in a lot of ways, becoming a parent has made me very anxious. Um, I worry about things I did not ever know that I would worry about. Right, they talk about that whole.

Caitlin Kindred: 27:48

Um, having a child is like having your heart outside of your body. There is that very real feeling of anxiety that comes with it. There's so much outside of my control, which is not how I like things. I have my own anxiety as it is, and I feel better when I can control things. That's why I like to be the one who drives places. It's because I know. I know that I'm not depending on anyone else for any other thing.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:13

So, um, in other ways, it's made me hyper aware of my own other emotions, um, of my own behavior, how my behavior has a direct impact on other people, because I'm watching like my stress level go up and my child become more anxious, or I'm watching myself laugh about something and my child relax and have fun. It's a weird thing, but it's made me very hyper aware of myself and how I conduct myself around anyone, because everyone is absorbing your behavior and I think when I was teaching it would have been an interesting I didn't stay in teaching long enough to watch my son get older and older and older at the same time, but I think I would have become even more aware of that as time had gone on with the way that I was engaging with students. It's made me more empathetic overall In terms of like, both in how I relate to other parents and how I relate to my child, and you know it's a. It's a weird thing and I think I've said this to Jenny I'm sure I have before but I also, like, am more empathetic for moms in general, because I think when I was in the hospital after I just had my son one of my nurses God bless her, she was the best person on the planet. Especially in that moment.

Caitlin Kindred: 29:44

You just need someone who really cares about you. She goes how are you doing mama? Because the baby is the candy bar, the mommy is the wrapper, and once the baby comes out, nobody cares about the mommy anymore, right? Nobody's there to see mama, everyone's there to see baby. And there are people who are there to see mama, right, usually, like mama's parents are there to see mama, right, but people aren't concerned about the mom anymore. They're concerned about the baby and I really try to make sure that when I'm having empathy, yes, it's about the child, but I really want to direct it at that mom because she needs it more than the child does. That child will be fine. There's. Everyone else is looking out for that child. Child will be fine. There's, everyone else is looking out for that child. Someone has to look out for mom and I think that's really where it's changed me the most is just being hyper aware of moms and being extra empathetic to them and their needs. That's beautiful.

Caitlin Kindred: 30:46

Thank you, it's, it's how I, it's genuine, it's what I really believe. It was such a profound statement. It was an aha moment for me to have her say you know, because baby is the candy bar, the mommy is the rapper what?

Jenny GK: 31:01

But it's so true. I had a similar moment with a nurse. I was pregnant with my second and I was in a car accident. May or may not have caused it myself no big deal, and I am, but it is. It is funny because I'm on my third Subaru since I met my husband 10 years ago. Anyway, I'm at L&D getting checked out, everything's fine.

Jenny GK: 31:25

It was a minor accident, it just messed up the car and it needed to be checked out and the nurse said to me you know, jen, if you can fix it with money, it's not really a problem. Wow. And to have a nurse, someone in the medical profession, tell me that. It was like, yeah, you're right, you might not always have the money, you might not even be able to get the money, but if you can fix it with money, it's not really a problem. I was like, yeah, you're right, because there are problems out there that you see every day that money is not going to fix.

Valerie Probstfeld: 31:59

Money will never fix.

Jenny GK: 32:00

Yeah, wow, and you know, that's how I've been getting through with this knee, like, hey, I can walk, I can move around, and there that I can walk, I can move around, and there's going to be some kind of procedure that will fix it, even if it's a total knee replacement. Oh, they do so, it's fine. I'm worried, I don't know.

Jenny GK: 32:17

Knee replacement because I mean because I have already put that in my mind, that like, even if that's what it was and it's not going to be, but even if it was like that's something that I can do, yeah, that, yeah, okay. So you know, if you can fix it with money, it's not a big problem. We'll figure it out Now. Becoming a mom has humbled me. Oh, a hundred percent. I have had a lot of things go easy for me in my life. I loved school. I was good at it. I wasn't so great at college, because you have to actually go to class to learn there.

Valerie Probstfeld: 32:51

So that was the thing.

Jenny GK: 32:53

But once I was old enough to realize that was the problem, that I wasn't like actually doing what I was supposed to do. But, like a lot of things have gone easy for me. I really enjoy teaching and you know I'll pat myself on the back, I think I'm good at it teaching, and you know I'll pat myself on the back, I think I'm good at it. But being a mom is really really hard and when you think you're everything's going right, something comes up. There's like oh wait, jen, let's check yourself. Um, when Abby was four, I prepped her for her well check. I said you're gonna have to get shots at this appointment. You can get them in your leg or in your arm. There will be four shots. They can do two in each leg or they can do two in each arm. I will sit with you while you get the shots and then at the end you'll get a sticker and we'll go out for ice cream and she says okay, okay.

Jenny GK: 33:48

So at the appointment the technician says, okay, well, it's time for immunizations. I said, no, it's fine, she knows that she's getting shots. We can talk about it. She's okay. Well, I'm going to go get the needles and we'll be back Abby arms, her legs and she says legs. So she lays down on the table. I hold her legs. I'm looking at her in the eye. The nurse pulls out the shots Everybody's fine. She gives the shots Abby's eyes giant dinner plates.

Jenny GK: 34:16

She looks at me. I forgot to tell her that shots hurt.

Caitlin Kindred: 34:23

I was like I had done a great job, like oh, I'm a stellar mom.

Jenny GK: 34:25

This nurse is like oh, wow, like I had done a great job, like oh, I'm a stellar mom. This nurse is like oh, wow, abby's okay with the shots, this is great. Like oops, Like a small piece of information that I did not provide.

Caitlin Kindred: 34:38

I was going to say, like your daughter is exceptionally mature, so any four-year-old who's like, oh yeah, okay, shots, no big deal. It's not even remotely surprising to me that she would have done that. But remotely surprising to me that she would have done that. But now that I you take for granted that we know shots hurt but a four-year-old doesn't know that.

Valerie Probstfeld: 34:56

Oh, like there's things we do and we're like oh, I wish I would have done it this way, or whatever. Yeah, it's like I wouldn't want a perfect mom, though either. You know, like then they wouldn't like understand life, and like, when they realize it's not perfect, then it's like oh how do I deal?

Caitlin Kindred: 35:18

Yeah, I agree, I do struggle with the human moment, and we've talked about this on a different show. But there is that moment where you realize, like your parents are human right, like, oh, my parents are not perfect. Oh, like they do something that's like maybe it's hurtful or unexpected, or it's just they just have a human moment that shows that they're flawed people. Um, and I think the difference between our generation of people and other generations before us is that at this point, our generation is now telling our child hey, that time when I didn't tell you that shots hurt, yeah, that's on me, my bad, and I messed that up because I think the human moment as an if you have that human moment as an adult, it's really hard to come to terms with.

Caitlin Kindred: 36:01

And so, like being forthright about how you were humbled in the process of parenting your child is really, really important to share with other people, but also with your own child, when they're old enough to understand that that's what happened. So I'm just going to piggyback that on top of what Jenny's saying is like, again, it goes back to that awareness, right, like being hyper aware of the way my own behavior impacts other people and apologizing when I am wrong. Like you know, I was overstimulated. I really could not handle you asking me to open that bottle of sparkling water in that moment and I screamed my full head off at you and I am really sorry about that. Here's why I did it and here's why it was wrong. Can I open that for you now? Just having that moment of humility is really really yeah, and for me it's the second kid, right?

Jenny GK: 36:53

oh, oh, sorry you don't have a baby book. Like no, no, no, like you have a ziploc bag full of stuff I collected for a few months.

Caitlin Kindred: 37:03

I just found your baby bracelet inside my jewelry box, my.

Valerie Probstfeld: 37:08

You guys, I really want to touch on a point that I think is so important, and I would love for you guys just to share with our listeners the episode and how, and I'll put it in the show notes as well.

Valerie Probstfeld: 37:20

But it's about school safety and I think this is a very important topic and I think your episode is called Beyond Thoughts and Prayers Practical Actions for School Safety. Beyond Thoughts and Prayers Practical Actions for School Safety. I just I loved it. It was so thoroughly researched. It was just so helpful. Can you share with us a bit about that?

Caitlin Kindred: 37:40

I think that really, that episode truly came from our own heartache.

Jenny GK: 37:45

Yeah, we have had to address that, or we have chosen to address that on three separate occasions on our show.

Caitlin Kindred: 37:53

Yeah, there's this idea that I think as a society we are especially in the States we are becoming desensitized to school violence. That's probably true in the media or generally. Personally, it is not true. It hurts a little bit more every single time. For me, I really struggle to move past it for a little bit longer. Every time it happens.

Caitlin Kindred: 38:25

I have been in the orbits of people who are personally impacted. At one point, one of my high school classmates' sons committed an act of violence in a school and ended up passing away after that. I work in ed tech marketing. One of my clients is in the school security space, is in the school security space, and an email I wrote may or may not have been a trigger to allow this person to purchase the product that helped their school in a moment of crisis. We are educators at heart. We're both very empathetic people. We come from a place of yes, we come from wanting to help when we can, and I think that the helplessness that comes from watching that happen really is where that came from. I think the first one we did was was that after you, valdi, when we did that first one?

Jenny GK: 39:26

Okay, yeah, and so I'm really fortunate I teach work. I guess I'm not a teacher anymore.

Jenny GK: 39:36

Yes, you are you teach adults, okay, but I'm in a school that has a security entrance with an armed officer at all times, bulletproof glass that actually fell off the truck on the delivery on the way over and didn't break, wow um, and four armed guards roaming the property at all times that children are there, and when we have a special event, we even contract more officers to come.

Jenny GK: 40:10

Um, I'm, we're just, we're really really lucky, um, and I know that, especially in private schools, having to pay for security is really challenging, and so, um, the recent events that have happened in private schools, it's because they don't have the security that they need, and it is sad to say that you need to have officers or other secure measures on your campus. For me, it really comes down to it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on. No one is in favor of children losing their lives at school, right, and you can believe what you want to believe about legislation and ownership rights and purchasing power and all of those things, and still be against this. Yes, and you know it's already been said we live in Texas and there's no question where Texas stands on these types of issues. But you can even carry and still be in favor of school safety and there's a lot of things that you can do and still be a supporter of Second Amendment rights as they're defined now was the.

Jenny GK: 41:58

For me, the most important thing that we did was make it more than just a gun regulation conversation, because that shuts down the conversation for 50 to 60 percent of americans and and I don't want um school safety and kids lives to be tied to someone feeling that they're right, yeah, a political issue and people feeling that their rights yeah, a political issue and people feeling that their rights are infringed, because we're talking about the rights of children to live Right, and so that to me, if you're listening and you haven't heard that episode, that's the thing I'm most proud of is that we really did brainstorm and provide actionable items for people who are even interested in furthering ownership rights, because that should not get in the way of keeping kids safe.

Caitlin Kindred: 42:43

Right, and the last couple of incidents, if I am not mistaken, were related to people who had purchased items legally for children who should not have had them, which means that they are pro-gun ownership, and that's totally okay. What's not okay is putting things in the hands of people who can create violent situations, and that's really. Again, as Jenny said, she was very careful about that and my stance is a little different and I don't need to go into that.

Jenny GK: 43:15

But oh, and you know politically that that that's a completely different issue. Right Like, right, it just is. If I can have a voice on that issue, it's not going to be the common Texas belief, but that I don't want that to get in the way of my point.

Caitlin Kindred: 43:33

Right Like that's the issue, right, and that exactly is the issue at hand is is you know, there's a reason we feel that way and that's because we feel like, because we are constantly dealing with these issues of kids being put in unsafe situations. That's where this place is coming from. That said, you don't have to feel helpless, right like that. You can be absolutely pro-second amendment, have as many guns as you need in your house and still be a responsible gun owner who works and advocates for student safety in the classroom, teacher safety in the classroom. Those are things that you can. They can coexist, and I think that right now we're in this space of black and white right. Morality is this yes, there are, there is right and wrong, but right now, we need to think beyond black and white and look at shades of gray and find, find a way to have these things coexist, because things can coexist. Two things can be true at the same time you can be a responsible gun owner, who also part of school safety and and addressing that.

Caitlin Kindred: 44:43

Everyone has these different beliefs, but there is one thing that we all come together on and that is that we want our children to come home the end right we should all be able to agree on that. And if, if that's something that you can't agree on, then clearly that episode's not for you and that's fine. You don't have to listen, don't? The people who, by the way I'm just going to put this out there the people who give one star ratings to podcasts? Did you know you can turn that podcast off? Just saying, just saying you can do that. The same applies here, but that's why we know that people could have turned our podcast off, that people could have turned our podcast off.

Valerie Probstfeld: 45:33

So we didn't want to turn anyone away from the message, because the message is too important to politicize, I think, and I'm so proud of you guys for for having that conversation, cause it is something that, like, I'm to the point now that when I, you know, like when I send my kids to school and I hear an ambulance, I think, oh, instant freak out yeah.

Valerie Probstfeld: 45:53

And if that is in society, where that's the first thing that comes to our mind when we hear that it's like this conversation and it needs to have like and I feel like that episode is putting I talk a lot about like ripple effects and in our ponds, like we need to be those pebbles putting that, putting that conversation, putting these actionable steps to create ripple effects into for all of us to understand those shades of gray.

Caitlin Kindred: 46:20

Yeah, I also. Just I have to say the fact that you you just said, if I hear an ambulance, I instantly go to that place, to me right there, that's proof that we are not desensit. That's proof that we are not desensitized to this conversation, we are not desensitized to these acts of violence, and so that ripple effect does become even more important. More and more people need to hear messages that they're willing to listen to, because it's not a politicized message, it is a message of what is right and wrong, and what is right is kids going home to their parents at the end of the school day. So, yeah, that is a huge compliment, because it does come from such a deeply emotional place to make that episode. So, thank you. And if you haven't heard it, there are actual action steps you can take that exist within that episode, and I would highly recommend it.

Caitlin Kindred: 47:12

Ones I'm honestly most proud of. Like, I'm proud of a few episodes. There's the ones that we, we laugh a lot together. Those are always great, but the ones that are like that, you know, I think that's even more important. So Absolutely.

Valerie Probstfeld: 47:26

Kaelin and Jenny. I feel like I can talk with you guys all day. I need to share with our listeners where they can find you, where they can follow you.

Jenny GK: 47:34

You can find us anywhere you pod. We're fancy, we're on Apple and we're on Spotify and you know, if you happen to be one of these indie podcasters, we're on good pods, but we're we're most active on Instagram and Caitlin manages that for us. She's up there all the time, so if you want to reach out, she'll be quick on the fly and be able to respond to any messages that you send. And we also have a website where you can find all of our episodes, as well as our blog. Again, thanks Caitlin, because she manages all of that, yeah we.

Caitlin Kindred: 48:20

I was quick to get on the handle that we wanted, so it's CK and GK podcast with the word and in between, and that's our website too. So CK and GK podcast dot com. I send out emails. If you want to be an email subscriber to get reminded about episodes, or you just want to peruse our website, all of that is available. Sometimes we even recommend like the products that we love. On our show there's like a whole page of like, just the stuff we were like this is really cool. Every people, everybody should buy this, and we don't get paid for that. We're just putting it out there because we like it, so you can find us in all the places. We could get paid for it. We could, I just haven't.

Jenny GK: 48:56

We're open to accepting that. Let me just go on the record.

Caitlin Kindred: 49:00

Right Anyone who would like to sponsor, if anyone happens to be listening from that airplane pocket backseat thing.

Jenny GK: 49:06

Yeah, we're big fun.

Caitlin Kindred: 49:09

Yeah yeah, skymall, do you need ambassadors? I love the stuff in that catalog. Anyone, we're big fun. I hope that that message came through here. I just want to say thank you for having us. I believe that our listeners probably overlap in some way, but also that any chance we have to get out and share our message and hopefully have other people have some fun at the same time, it's really a big deal. So thank you so much for having us on the show.

Jenny GK: 49:38

Shout out to your dentist.

Valerie Probstfeld: 49:40

Yes, I just talked to my dentist yesterday. I was telling Caitlin and Jenny she was asking about mom podcasts and like, oh, I do a podcast and I'm actually talking with these podcasters tomorrow who are amazing. So that's so important for us podcasters. I think that you know, if you resonate with what you're hearing, please share it.

Caitlin Kindred: 50:00

Please. It helps so much, it's so helpful.

Valerie Probstfeld: 50:05

And that's what I love about what you guys are doing too is you are creating, you're making a difference, and I think the more us moms, us people in this world join hands to make a difference is so important. So continue spreading that message, continue doing what you're doing. You're doing incredible work. Thank you so much for all of the love, the passion, the advocacy and the laughter.

Caitlin Kindred: 50:31

I mean best compliment ever. Thank you so much. I feel similarly about your show. I think that it comes from such a place of kindness and empathy and I love listening to what you have to say and what your guests have to say. It's great. So thank you, that's a really big compliment.

Valerie Probstfeld: 50:50

Kindred spirits. I love it yes.

Caitlin Kindred: 50:52

See, works, it works Bye, bye.