Caitlin Kindred: 0:29

Hey, we're glad you're here. I don't know what day it is. That's Jenny's realm of knowing what day. I'm not that person. It might be Tuesday, could be, but it's a day of the week and I'm Caitlin. Welcome to how to Be a Grown-Up, the show that is all about giving you advice on being a grown-up, with hosts who sometimes forget to take that advice themselves. So, uh, with me today filling in for jenny as she recovers from knee surgery, is ariela monte, author of roots in ink.

Ariella Monti: 1:05

My poetic coffee fueled tornado of brilliance oh, I wouldn't have said tornado of brilliance, I would have said tornado of something less than brilliance but no, you're we've talked about this before you're very wisdomous, okay, uh, we love you, jenny, we miss you.

Caitlin Kindred: 1:24

Um, if you want to support her, please do feel free to reach out to us using the contact us form on our website, or you can send me a text through the show notes. It's the first link in the show notes. Today we are continuing our spring into self-care series with the very important conversation about self-care and guilt which I mentioned we would get into. Uh, and as we first started this series, um, so I touched on that in episode 144, which is four clever ways to reset your forgotten self-care routine. If you haven't listened to it, I suggest going back to that and I will link it here in the show notes as well. So today my sources are Heather Mulder, which I talked about in that episode. She is the owner of a of a coaching company called course correction, and the article is called how to stop feeling guilty about taking care of yourself. And then there's, of course, references from myself, and Ariella will add in her her feelings about this as well. But I'm going to start by saying you know, if you listen to this show regularly, that we have been lecturing you about the importance of self-care. For the past three weeks, we talked about resetting your self-care routine, we talked about mindfulness, we talked about hobbies, but the thing that's hardest is probably what we're getting into today, and so I'm sure that you are probably sick of me saying you need to focus on your self-care. You know that already. You just can't do it for whatever reason, and I'm going to repeat what I said a few weeks ago, and this is going to sound harsh, but it's probably because you feel guilty about your self-care. Okay, it's time to fix that love. We're done with that. No more guilt. No more guilt. As heather molder said, and I again I agree with her on all this.

Caitlin Kindred: 3:08

Ditching that guilt requires three things one, a good definition of self-care. Two, knowing how to start prioritizing it. And three, a good support system that you can go to for help, guidance and accountability to make sure that you are taking care of yourself. So we're going to get into each one of those things here. We're going to start with your. If you are someone who feels guilty about self-care, you are likely unreasonable at best definition of self-care. So no offense to you, as I say something offensive your definition of self-care probably sucks. I'm just going to say it Fix your definition of self-care. It might be oh, I need to take a spa day. No, I'm going to give you my definition from episode 144. And again, I'm going to give you my definition from episode 144. And again, I'm going to suggest you go back to it. My definition is the things that you do for yourself that help you feel like yourself.

Caitlin Kindred: 4:02

Why does it exist? The purpose of self-care is to be able to give your best to tasks and other people when it matters the most, like when you have a big work project due, like when your kiddo is up sick all night and you haven't slept. Because that's life as a parent. You'll be better equipped, better mentally capable of handling that big problem when it does come your way. Because it will. It always does, because that is life. Right, it always does If you've taken care of yourself before it arrives. I also find that sometimes the little problems are where I really lose it. Right, because they stack up. Right, they do. And it's never that you spill something one time in a day. It's that you've spilled three things and then you drop something and you break it, and then there's a band-aid stuck to the drum of your dryer and you just lose your mind and you completely lose your mind right.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:02

I may or may not be speaking from personal experience on that one right, but all those little things that add up. When you completely lose it because of those little things, it's probably because your self-care is lacking it's the preventative maintenance of your life right right, it is the botox of your life.

Caitlin Kindred: 5:23

It is the hair dye that you use, and when your roots are growing out, it is the hair dye that you use. And when your roots are growing out, it is the little powder that you tap onto the roots so that they don't show. Okay, that's the purpose of your self-care. The other thing I want you to do is redefine success. This is a really weird one to bring up here, but I promise it matters. Success is not necessarily achievement based. It can be, of course, right Anytime. You accomplish a goal or a task. That is success, and you should be proud of that and celebrate everything that comes along with it. But how you define success really does matter, because if your definition is based solely on achievement, success really does matter. Because if your definition is based solely on achievement, as Heather Mulder says, your self-worth will also be primarily about your outcome and you're less likely to feel that you're worthy of self-care.

Ariella Monti: 6:31

We're not.

Caitlin Kindred: 6:31

We're not. We're not doing that in 2025. We're not tying our self-worth to our outcomes. No, it's not healthy. I'm going to use you in as an example here.

Caitlin Kindred: 6:37

Okay, you achieved success in publishing your book. That is an accomplishment. You worked really hard on it for four years and you were also doing other projects at the same time. Like, that is an achievement. You need to celebrate that as the success. What you're not going to focus on right now even though it's so impossible and I'm facing this myself with the podcast is the result of the publishing.

Caitlin Kindred: 7:13

Right, you can't define the success of the book by how well it does in the market. You have to define the success of the book by the fact that you accomplished that in the first place. Exactly yeah, that's what I'm doing with the podcast right now is I can't define it based on the number of listeners I have or the number of downloads. I need to be focused on the fact that one, I'm publishing every week, which is an achievement in and of itself, and two, it brings me joy. So that needs to be the focus Right. Here's the other problem with an achievement based definition of success. Achievement based definitions of success make everything too hard. Mm, hmm, self-care becomes too much work because you end up obsessing over metrics. Achievement-based definitions of success make everything too hard.

Caitlin Kindred: 7:58

Self-care becomes too much work because you end up obsessing over metrics. Right, and here's what I mean by metrics. You know how, if you are an Apple watch or a Garmin or whatever the brand is of Fitbit, whatever it is of watch that you wear, that measures your output for the day of watch that you wear that measures your output for the day If you've ever exercised without it or the battery dies or you forget to track it and you're like, dang it, that workout doesn't even count. I'm sorry.

Ariella Monti: 8:28

What? No, of course it counts of course the exercise counts.

Caitlin Kindred: 8:35

Just because you don't get credit for it on your watch, you're gonna say the workout doesn't count. Now I've said that before. The other day I was walking home it was pouring rain and my jacket stuck to my watch and it turned off the walking workout. So it said that I only walked for two and a half miles, when I actually walked for four. I was livid about that. I'm like man, I'm not gonna get credit for it. And then I was like wait, wait, hold on a second, kaylin, take a step back.

Caitlin Kindred: 8:59

You still walked for four miles you still did your morning walk in the rain, holding my umbrella, switching back and forth between arms because my arms were getting tired.

Ariella Monti: 9:08

I'm gonna get you one of those little hats with the umbrella on it.

Caitlin Kindred: 9:11

I do need one of those. How lame is that? But it has to be big.

Ariella Monti: 9:15

That's true, because otherwise it only like protects your like neck and that's it Okay.

Caitlin Kindred: 9:21

If you're fixated on the achievement that your watch is telling you you did a workout and not on the fact that you just did something good for your body, that's insane. I'm fixated on the achievement and not on the good thing I just did, and that's because my crazy brain is thinking it doesn't count because I have my watch on. That is insane. Thinking right, it leads to other insanity. Things like counting every single calorie, obsessing over your step count, weighing yourself every morning and all these other inane habits that make you feel ashamed of yourself because you quote haven't succeeded yet and it doesn't honor the work that you did, regardless of whether or not it was measured Right, right, and it starts to become a chore because you're so obsessed with the success and the metric of it. It's not self-care. Yeah, that kind of obsession is really unhealthy. That's what makes it not self-care. So you can't use an achievement-based definition of success when it comes to self-care. It's not good for your mental health.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:33

Another thing we're going to do here to get over the guilt Repeat after me. You're going to repeat after me Ariella, here we go. Okay, no is a complete sentence.

Ariella Monti: 10:42

Say it no is a complete sentence. There it is.

Caitlin Kindred: 10:46

I find that in my life there are two ways of getting me to say yes to things. One is by asking me to do something that I know that you suck at. By asking me to do something that I know that you suck at.

Ariella Monti: 11:00

Is this like is an example of this. When I told you that I suck at Excel and you're like ask me to do it.

Caitlin Kindred: 11:09

Yes, god, well, that well. There's two things there. One I genuinely want to help you. No, sure, sure, sure, yeah. But also like, yes, oh, my God, just let me do it, okay. So there's two things going on there. One part of me is like no, I can do it better than you, so let me just do it. That's an ego thing. That's one. Two if I have to teach you how to do the thing, forget it. It's not worth it to me to teach you how to do it, so I'm gonna do it myself. So that's that's. The first way is getting me to do some, or asking me to do something that I know you suck at, okay. The other way is by convincing me that the task won't take very long oh yeah which we'll get to in a minute.

Caitlin Kindred: 11:49

This is a very unfair thing to do to me because my time blindness is one of my biggest challenges. Either way, remember that. No, it's not about the person. You're not rejecting a person, you're rejecting the ask. And, by the way, if you're saying yes because you want that person to like you, they won't like you because you're saying yes, they're going to like that. You took the task off their plate for them because they don't want to do it. That's a message to 12 old caitlin right there doing something for someone does not make them like you. They either like you or they don't.

Caitlin Kindred: 12:24

The end the purpose of saying no. Again, you're not rejecting the person, you are rejecting the ask. The purpose of saying no is to uphold your priorities, which in this, this case, we're talking about yourself. Right, and because you're upholding your priorities, that means there's nothing wrong with you saying no. Right, when you say no to someone and again, I want you to switch that not saying no to someone, but saying no to something, saying no to the ask. When you say no, you're also saying yes to yourself and those people that you love most, because you have the ability to say yes to them so that you can be your best self when it matters Right?

Caitlin Kindred: 13:09

Heather Mulder's website has a whole post about how to say no guilt-free, and it's linked in the blog for this episode and I would highly recommend it. I need to read it and then I need to memorize it and then I need to listen to it as my go to sleep noises and brainwash myself in the middle of the night. The fifth thing you're going to do when it comes to building guilt-free self-care routines is take back your time, because it's yours. Heather Mulder says that when you say I don't have time for self-care, you might be full of garbage.

Ariella Monti: 13:53

Sure, we'll go with that.

Caitlin Kindred: 13:54

Yeah, uh-huh. Here's one of the things that she suggested. Now, full disclosure. I have not done this, but the reason I haven't done it is because I'm afraid, I'm afraid and, and you'll see why in a second um, she says for a full week pay attention to what you're doing and how long you spend doing everything. Keep a running log. At the end of the week, go back and review how you're spending your time. Warning, it will shock you.

Ariella Monti: 14:21

It's like your screen time. You know it's like your screen time usage when it pops up and it's like you've spent you used your phone for five and a half hours. This week Eight hours on social media.

Caitlin Kindred: 14:38

I have that like screen time limit thing where it's like you only get an hour of social media. Do you know how many times I reject that warning? Where it's like 15 more minutes, 15 more minutes, ignore for the day. I know, and that's where, when you see, like, oh, I spent five hours and 23 minutes on social media. What could I have been doing with that time? Now, part of it is me doing that because I'm also promoting the podcast, but not all of it.

Caitlin Kindred: 15:05

If you happen to be one of the very fortunate recipients of my memes, you know that that is not the only thing I'm doing on there, and sometimes I'm neglecting answering text messages and emails because I'm scrolling social media. Do you know how many times I've been like oh, I forgot to make that vet appointment. What was I doing? I was scrolling, I was looking at Instagram, okay, so anyway, this is not a shame fest about how you spend your time. What we're doing is saying you might actually have more time than you think because the things you spend your time on are not as valuable as putting self-care would be in that moment. Right.

Ariella Monti: 15:49

And I just want to add too that, like, when we say more time, like we're not talking about like four or five hours here, like more time could mean five minutes, you know, or you know, or a half hour, like we're not saying you know. Oh, do this observation you need three hours to go to the spa. Like that's not what this is Right Like maybe you find out that like, yeah, you spend like 15 minutes doom scrolling and being depressed and that's 15 minutes. You could do something that doesn't depress you.

Caitlin Kindred: 16:28

Right, we've talked about this already where, um you know, maybe, it means doing your hobby for 15 minutes. This is my instead of doom scrolling at this time. I now, you know I can I can doom scroll for four hours and 53 minutes instead of five hours and 23, and I can take 30 of those minutes and I can use them to crochet or read or do my puzzle or watch birds whatever your hobby might be, it doesn't matter. But that's the point here. Right, I can really see personally how this would show me how I spend my time and what I say yes to, and then it would teach me a few lessons about how I value my own time, because I clearly am valuing scrolling over reading a book that brings me enjoyment, or crocheting, right, you know, and like I said, yes, I spend too much time on social media. This is not a social media shame fest. I am trying to promote a podcast here. Ariel is trying to write a book or trying to promote a book.

Caitlin Kindred: 17:32

There are reasons for this, but that doesn't mean that I am using all of that time that way. Like I, I also am inefficient with other chores, like, well, cleaning out my inbox by reading emails I don't actually care about, like what these are. This is a big time waster and I probably spend more time doing chores than hanging out with my family than I actually realize. Probably spend more time doing chores than hanging out with my family than I actually realize. That's the purpose of the tracking your time thing. So if that's something you would like to try doing, go for it.

Caitlin Kindred: 18:05

Like I said, I haven't done it because I'm scared, but it might also just be that when you get that screen time alert or when you are doing chores, you note like okay, I just spent an hour and a half doing chores. Only two of the four needed to be done today. How could I have adjusted my use of time in that moment? Right? So what I mean to say when and what Ariel and I means to say when we talk about can't find the time, a closer look at how you actually spend it might help you find it. Yeah, right, yeah. And for some of you, when you choose to log your time, you might actually find that you literally have no time. Yeah, in which case you, in particular my friend who has no time cannot afford to waste any of it by feeling guilty about taking care of yourself, like you literally don't have the time to feel guilty about anything involved in taking care of you as a person. That's. That's not okay, and and you are someone who needs this more than anyone else.

Ariella Monti: 19:17

Definitely.

Caitlin Kindred: 19:18

So, just keeping that in mind so this was just a little mini extension of that episode I promised you know a few episodes ago about ditching self care guilt. So I'm going to recap these five ways that you're going to. You're going to do these five things to help you realize that there's no reason for you to feel guilty about your self-care. Okay, One, you're going to redefine your crappy definition of self-care and you're going to use mine. I'm not going to repeat it again. Two, you're going to remember the purpose of self-care, why it exists. This, I will repeat it exists so that you can be your best self when it matters.

Caitlin Kindred: 19:52

Three, you're going to redefine your success. You are going to make sure that success is not achievement-based, so that you're not obsessing over metrics. You are doing something because it's good. You're not saying no to a person. You're saying no to the ask in favor of saying yes to yourself, your family, things that matter to you. And five, along with the saying no to things, you're going to take back your time because it's yours. You're going to look for those areas of dead time that we mentioned in episode 144. And you're going to look for those areas of time when you need to do your hobby that we talked about in 146, that you can use to build in that moment that habit of self-care. And you as a parent especially, you can't afford to feel guilty about doing things that make you feel good about yourself, because your family needs you at your best.

Ariella Monti: 21:10

And you need some model taking care of yourself so that your kids can grow up knowing that it's okay to take care of themselves.

Caitlin Kindred: 21:20

Yeah, and they honor when other people have that request as well. Let's take a quick break. We will be right back For links to resources mentioned in this episode. Head on over to ckandgkpodcastcom slash blog to find everything you need, and be sure to follow us on social media. Head over to your favorite social media network and find us at CK and GK podcast.

Ariella Monti: 21:47

And now back to the show a whole bunch of balloons popped up.

Caitlin Kindred: 21:53

Oh, um, there is a thing on a Mac where you can have reactions. I don't know how they work, okay, and I don't know why they happen, but like I've seen it where, like I've done a thumbs up and it will give me a balloon thumbs up, but if I do it intentionally, it doesn't do it.

Ariella Monti: 22:10

So I don't know what makes it happen. Yeah, cause.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:14

I don't know what makes it happen. Yeah Cause I don't know if you saw me kind of go. I saw you like do that, and I was like did I?

Ariella Monti: 22:17

No, because I did because I saw a balloon rise and I was like what, what's happening?

Caitlin Kindred: 22:25

And then yeah, it was, it was weird, and I also because if I'm some, this is how I think a lot of people are, but I will look at myself instead of look at you when I'm talking, which is not healthy for a conversation. So I hide my camera most of the time, so I didn't even know what happened, because my camera is not right, I'm only looking at you. Yeah, yeah.

Ariella Monti: 22:46

Yeah.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:47

Yeah, all right, feel better. No, stop feeling guilty.

Ariella Monti: 22:54

It's just that easy.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:55

Right, just stop feeling guilty.

Caitlin Kindred: 22:57

Says the person who needs therapy really badly. Let's talk about current obsessions. I mentioned last time on the episode that I love my boxing workout. I need to just make sure y'all understand I am using muscles that I have not used in years and they are all screaming at me. I am so sore and I uh, I see a chiropractor and then I go to a deep tissue massage guy because my back and is so messed up and my hips are really messed up from you know, motherhood and having a job where I sit down that like this is like maintenance to make sure that I don't cry when I try to tie my shoes, and I went yesterday to get those things done and I am so sore. So my favorite thing right now in my whole house is my foam roller and I'm using it to roll out my glutes like the very top, like where it's your waist almost. If you have a sore lower back, I highly recommend rolling out your glutes. If you haven't, but also my IT band. I am in tears.

Ariella Monti: 24:08

Oh my God, the IT band hurts so much with a foam roller, my eyes welled up, I was crying.

Caitlin Kindred: 24:18

I cried because it hurt so badly and the workout is obviously really good for me. Like I said, my muscles are going hey, did you remember you had this muscle? You didn't. And it's good because, you know, the stronger your muscles are, especially as you get older, into your 40s Hello, I am now 41. I, like you, need to build them up because it helps with literally everything else, like metabolism and all that, yes, but also like it's holding your bones in place, like hello.

Ariella Monti: 24:48

So it's really good for me, but I am so sore and my foam roller is my bestie at the moment, so I'm obsessed with her it's so funny you say that because yesterday at the end of my yoga class I was putting some of the props away and there's a stack of foam rollers like on the top shelf of in the closet, and I don't know what I did, but one came down and then like five of them just oh, that's so down.

Ariella Monti: 25:21

So people were. There were a couple of students that were like what? Because they're huge. Yeah, they're big. The one I have is maybe like two feet tall. These ones are like a good four, like they're gigantic and some people are like what are they?

Caitlin Kindred: 25:38

using them for, and that's what we were talking about.

Ariella Monti: 25:40

I'm like I have no idea how they, you know, I don't. I honestly don't think there's been a class that has used them recently and stuff. But, um, somebody was like I don't even know, like how you would use it, and I'm like, yeah, you do like this really painful torture stuff and like I got on my side to like oh it, oh, it hurts so much but it feels it like afterwards.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:03

I feel like a million bucks, like after I roll out. I can feel less tension overall in my body. If you have a foam roller and you haven't used it and you have pains in your body, just go on YouTube and find like a five minute roller foam roller workout and do it and you will feel better, I promise.

Ariella Monti: 26:22

And if you can't handle the foam roller, I will say you could use something like a lacrosse ball or a tennis ball or something, and kind of hurt just as much? I don't think well. Well, it depends on what you're doing, like, yeah, if you're trying to like roll over a tennis ball, then yes, but if you're just taking the tennis ball and rolling it on, your leg rubbing it.

Caitlin Kindred: 26:44

Oh okay, I was like what? No, like I'm sorry, I was definitely picturing like me lying like on my side and propped up my elbow trying to roll out my with a tennis ball.

Ariella Monti: 26:54

I was like that's no, if anything that would be like you would just press it down in that case okay, yeah, I took a couple of yoga classes that do myofacial release and we use that kind of stuff. I cannot say that I'm an expert in it whatsoever there's another one that I've seen.

Caitlin Kindred: 27:12

that's called scraping. It's, yeah, you might have seen like uh, uh, if you ever watched the Olympics there were. There was a while where there were the swimmers were having the like giant circular bruises on their back and that's called cupping. Oh, okay, but this is called scraping and it's basically like a um, it kind of looks like a stick. You might've seen them. They're like sticks and they have like those abacus kind of ball things on them and you use them to roll up and down your muscles. But the scraping one has like tines, it looks like fingers and it's to straighten out the fibers of your muscles and it hurts. I haven't done the scraping thing, but the between the foam rolling and the cupping and the and the scraping there's. There's an option for you if you have pains, but I would highly recommend, especially if you have lower back pain, rolling at your glutes and rolling at your IT band makes a big difference. So, anyway, that's my obsession. Do you have one right now or no? I cannot think of one.

Ariella Monti: 28:05

You know I probably do, but now that I'm on the spot like I can't.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:12

Yeah, no, I get it.

Ariella Monti: 28:15

I can't, yeah, no, I get it I can't ever think of things.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:17

I can't think of things. Okay, do you want to hear my gem? Yes, I sent this to johnny this morning. For those of you who don't know, means you haven't been listening to this podcast very long.

Caitlin Kindred: 28:27

I love botox, but I wear botox out. It's supposed to last for three months, three to six. I wear it out in about seven weeks. So, um, I have a stronger one that I use. It's called Dysport, and, like Botox, it kicks in and you reach full strength around two weeks after you have your appointment, and for me, though, the difference is that with Botox, I couldn't feel it kicking in right away, whereas with Dysport, like 24 hours, 24 hours later, I'm like oh yeah, and there it is, and you don't necessarily feel it, but you like, you can, just you can tell.

Caitlin Kindred: 29:00

Well, this morning I go into the bathroom and my husband is saying something about how like we're this old, and I was like forget you, I'm 25. And then I looked at my forehead. Ladies, ladies and gentlemen, ladies, there's no gentleman listening to this anymore. My forehead doesn't move, my eyebrows don't go anywhere. It made me so happy, and I was so excited about it, that I was like Bryce, get in here. He was like okay. I was like watch my eyebrows. He was like, okay, they don't move, you guys, they don't move. Watch this, I'll show you here we. Okay, they don't move. You guys, they don't move. Watch this, I'll show you here we go ready. They're not moving. I'm trying really hard to lift, that is, I can't lift them up and okay, I'm trying to make an angry face. My angry face is me blinking.

Ariella Monti: 29:50

I adore you with all of of the fiber of my being, but that is so disturbing. You know I support you in your Botox journey. I do not judge you at all.

Caitlin Kindred: 30:06

Oh we're not on a. We're on an adventure. It's more than a journey. I love this for you, but it's so weird. It's so weird. It's so weird, it's so weird. And you know what? I don't care, because here's the other part. So I do get my crow's feet done, I do, but it's not intense, and my dermatologist was like you know. So next time you might want to think about getting more in your crow's feet, and I was like all, maybe I will.

Caitlin Kindred: 30:38

I'm not gonna lie, but at this point I still have other lines on my face, so you can tell that I like have an expression right um, but I can't make an angry face.

Caitlin Kindred: 30:48

That which means I have no 11s lines and my son doesn't comment on how my forehead looks like a wifi symbol anymore. So I am overjoyed. I love that. Overjoyed that my I'm two weeks in and I can't move, and it's great. You are happy. So I am happy, I am right, and I don't. I don't dye my hair, right? I? We've talked about this. I am aging gracefully with my hair. I will have white hair. Hopefully I'll be one of those cool chicks that has red and white hair at the same time, like Bonnie Raitt style. I won't be, but that would be the goal. But the Botox is going to be Like I'm trying to get angry. Look, I can't. It's great, I don't look like me in some ways and that is okay. Yay, yes, okay. Do you have a gem? I?

Ariella Monti: 31:42

do I have milkweed babies? What?

Caitlin Kindred: 31:50

I'm sorry I don't Is. This is milkweed.

Ariella Monti: 31:53

milkweed's a plant Milkweed is a plant, right, right, yeah, okay, yeah, okay. So I got one, right, okay. So we were talking about hobbies last week. One of my hobbies is gardening and native plants. Yes, and I have a milkweed plant out in the front yard that that has seed, a couple of seed pods on it and I suck at growing things from seed. And milkweed can be a little bit tricky because it needs cold in order to germinate, so it needs a winter, like it needs it needs a. It needs a nice winter nap in order to bloom, which, personally, I think we all need to do more of winter naps in order to bloom.

Caitlin Kindred: 32:43

Right, there's something there that's very metaphorical and relatable.

Ariella Monti: 32:49

Definitely, yeah. So the past couple. I have been trying to grow milkweed from seed for a couple of years now and I'm just thrilled because last year I was able to harvest a good amount of it. I cold stratified it by putting it into the refrigerator, putting them into the refrigerator for a month, to the refrigerator, putting them into the refrigerator for a month, and then a couple of weeks ago I planted them in like little pots and stuff and last year I think I got maybe two out of a couple of dozen seeds, like two actual like plants out of a couple of dozen seeds seeds, and this year so far I think I have like five or six. Oh, yay, yeah. So these are all gonna be like my little milkweed babies.

Ariella Monti: 33:43

The first year that I did this and I had like small little milkweed plants, I made the mistake of putting them in the ground a little bit too early because they were small and my chickens decided to eat them. So, um, this year I'm going to keep them and, uh, I'm going to keep them in a pot for a little bit longer. So they're a little bit bigger, but that's like five or six. If they continue to grow and thrive, that's like five or six milkweed plants that I get to put outside, and they'll be happy places for monarch butterflies to lay their babies okay, I had to.

Caitlin Kindred: 34:26

I I had to, like go look up what this plant is, because I know, I know what it is, but I couldn't tell you, like I'm not good at knowing what the plants are at all. Know, I know what it is, but I couldn't tell you like I'm not good at knowing what the plants are at all. The only plants I know is like grass, and I couldn't tell you what types of grass. And I know like sunflowers and then like sago palms, because that's what exists in Texas, right, but like now that I'm seeing, okay, I looked it up, I got some images. This is huge. Texas is such a big stopover for monarchs. I should probably have some of these two around my area. They're so pretty. Look at that.

Ariella Monti: 34:59

Oh, I like them. There's a couple of different varieties, and the one variety that does pretty well at my house is called swamp milkweed or rose milkweed, and that's, I believe that's the one that I've been having a lot of luck with, and so now I feel like I have enough that I've been having a lot of luck with, and so now I feel like I have enough that I don't have to go and buy starter plants and I can spend my money on, like other pollinator friendly, you know, because I've I've gotten these little milkweed babies, so I'm very, I'm very happy, that's so sweet, they're really pretty.

Caitlin Kindred: 35:32

You should put a picture of them on the blog post for this episode I want to see. Yeah, people will want to see that. Okay, I believe we have cured your guilt Single-handedly. I did it all by myself. No, you need more than just me. You need a therapist to really cure guilt. In the meantime, as Jenny would say, say, make good choices and go plant some milkweed. Yeah, and stop. You don't have time for guilt. No, guilt's not constructive. No, go do something else with your time, like a hobby. All right, see ya bye.