Jenny GK: 0:29

Pardon me, but may I alert you that it is Tuesday.

Caitlin K: 0:35

You get me. Every time. I never know how you're going to do this. I'm always surprised. Welcome back, guys. It's good to have you here. This is how to Be a Grown-Up the show that teaches you the things that grown-ups need to know how to do. Yeah, yeah. This week we are talking about teaching kids to have good manners. Personally, this is something I really struggle with, not because I don't want my child to have manners, but because I, or because he's rude or anything like that, because he's not, because I am self-conscious about his manners, like oh wait, you make it about you.

Caitlin K: 1:17

Yes, of course, who doesn't?

Jenny GK: 1:18

That sounds like me.

Caitlin K: 1:20

It's always about me, are you kidding? Um, I'm just on high alert about how I'm perceived by other people. It's just a self-consciousness issue, and manners are a big part of that, but I'll get into all of that in just a minute.

Jenny GK: 1:33

So first, before we do that, we've got to introduce each other With me today is Caitlin, who's not Emily Post, she's Emily the most.

Caitlin K: 1:43

Oh, I like that one. It's very apropos. This is Jenny, my majestic soaring condor.

Jenny GK: 1:53

Wow, I have seen the condor. Have you? Yes, so at the San Diego Wild Animal Park which is not the zoo, it's the one out in the hills that's like more natural enclosures they have a condor enclosure, oh cool, and they're like one of the organizations responsible for like bringing condors back to nature. But they're huge of the organizations responsible for like bringing condors back to nature.

Caitlin K: 2:13

But they're huge, they're really big. So my sources for today are an article, of course, by Emma Singer, who I adore, on PureWow, and she has some additional support from Suzanne Zuckerman, and they interviewed a mental health expert named Jennifer Kelman. She's a clinical social worker and she's got a lot of good credentials that you can check out on the article. The article is called how to Teach Kids Manners Parenting Tips for Polite Kids, according to a child therapist. So I actually read through this article several times just trying to make sure that I agree with everything that I saw there. As you and I do as we vet the sources. I liked everything on this list. I didn't really like how it kind of jumped around from one thing to another thing, so I rearranged the order of how this works just to categorize a few things, and I'll go through each of those in just a second. But I want to start by saying I think we've gone over this before. You know, sam has like affirmations that we say every day.

Jenny GK: 3:14

Right, right Right.

Caitlin K: 3:15

So we always start with you know, be nice to each other, or be nice to people around you, be kind, right, um, listen to your teacher, listen to your body. And then there's a couple other ones Be nice to everyone, try stuff like that. Okay, I can do hard things, things like that. So one of them is be nice to everyone, stuff like that, okay, I can do hard things, things like that. So one of them is be nice to everyone. And I think that having good manners falls under that rule. Absolutely, um, I've always maintained that manners really do two things. One, they help you feel comfortable around other people and help others feel comfortable around you.

Jenny GK: 3:52

Okay, okay, so here's the science behind that.

Caitlin K: 3:55

Yeah.

Jenny GK: 3:57

There are communal expectations, and nothing feels worse than unmet expectations. So when there are rules about how we engage, we know what to expect and so we feel more comfortable because there's not unknown out there.

Caitlin K: 4:11

oh so like manners are just psychology yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. I also think that they're. I mean, it's just about respecting other people, right like on the surface. It's respect for other people.

Jenny GK: 4:25

So um, and the respect is shown by by treating them the way they expect to be treated, so they're not surprised by what you do.

Caitlin K: 4:33

Right. So when I get nervous around new people or settings, or when my son gets nervous around new people or settings, I say things like if we remember our manners, we're leading with kindness, which is one of our family rules, and everyone feels less nervous when we just lead with kindness. Right, can we?

Jenny GK: 4:52

talk about that being one of your family rules. Yeah, because you know that my family rule is we don't waste meat.

Caitlin K: 4:59

We have another one too. It's Moran's eat meat. We also have that. When my sister said she was, she was like guys, I think I'm going to be a vegetarian. My other sister goes what Moran's eat meat. Like guys, I think I'm going to be a vegetarian. My other sister goes what Marantz eat meat my favorite lines ever.

Caitlin K: 5:21

It cracked me up, but like no, we just, whenever we're having conversations about, you know, political things or just people being mean to each other, or people make comments on other people's bodies, we always come back to this is how we treat others with kindness, like we lead by kindness. So that's really what this is about. Um, there are some FAQs that go along with this that I wanted to point out. Yeah, so I'm going to start with those. One is when should they learn manners? Well, I mean anyone who's trying to teach a baby to say thank you, like let it go, Right, but think about the natural age of socialization, right, Like, once we get into a situation where there's other people that we are interacting with, that's probably the right time to start doing that. Not infant daycare, not the class for one year olds, for one-year-olds, but, like you know, when kids are able to speak to one another and where we've moved past the, you know we don't hit stage.

Jenny GK: 6:18

Maybe it's, maybe that's a good time to start introducing these things well, and it's one of those things that when you're at that age where you're narrating your day for your kid yeah, that's when you can start to talk about what you're doing. I'm going to say please, because I know that person appreciates it when I ask kindly we get into that, or I will get into that too in just a minute.

Caitlin K: 6:40

But basically, like those typical kid behaviors that can come off as rude, you can narrate those situations and that's probably about the right time when you would start this teaching. What manner should kids learn? These are hard because everyone perceives manners differently. So, in terms of what manners kids should learn, try not to focus on hard and fast rules. Everybody's manners looks different regionally and all that kind of stuff, so don't commit yourself to hard and fast. Kids need to learn this by this age. Just pay attention to what's actually happening and use it as an opportunity to teach the manner, as opposed to okay, well, first we're going to talk about thank you and then we're going to talk about please. That doesn't work for anybody. Then the last one is what do I do when kids forget their manners, forget? There are quotes around the word forget. Just remember that I said.

Caitlin K: 7:40

Manners are about like your own or my own discomfort, right? I think one of the first things you need to do is own that discomfort, right. Like you're embarrassed that your kid forgets their manners. It's not. Your kid isn't embarrassed. They forgot their manners. You, as the parent, are embarrassed that they forgot their manners, right. So I think owning that and then trying to stay calm and then either some sort of apology to whoever needs to hear it or whatever, is probably appropriate. But then don't come down on your kid in that moment. Just find an opportune time to talk about it and we'll get to that in just a second.

Caitlin K: 8:17

Okay, actually, teaching manners Again, I've categorized these for my own self to make sense of it. So start with yourself when you're coming to this whole teaching manners topic. One be a role model. Do not command your child to say and do specific things like say please and thank you, but instead model the behavior that you wish to see. We've talked about this over and over and over again on this show and, especially as teachers, we know modeling the behavior that you wish to see is going to be the best way to get this started and it creates buy-in absolutely it's right.

Caitlin K: 9:02

I'm not asking you to do something that I'm not gonna do myself exactly so when you do that, you're also opening the door for conversation about the value of manners. Right, making other people feel comfortable, instead of just parroting you by saying please and thank you because mom said, say please, say thank you, or doing it just because you told them to. So, along those lines, don't force good manners. They won't get used if you're not around. If you try to force them, right, that very common what do you say? Or oh, that was so nice of Aunt Blanche, she gave you a lollipop. Say thank you.

Caitlin K: 9:45

That's not teaching. You think it is, but it's not. It's forcing. So there's two problems with that. One why do your kids clean up around the house? Because you told them to over and over and over again. Not because they actually care that it's clean, not because they see the value of cleaning up. So, just like when you don't tell them to, they don't clean up, right? Same thing here when you force manners, you tell them that they have to say please or say thank you. They won't use them when you're not around, just like they don't clean up unless you tell them to.

Jenny GK: 10:22

Oh wait, they don't. Mm-mm. Oh, okay. Well, I haven't been in Abby's room in six months, so I'm not quite sure what it looks like.

Caitlin K: 10:34

That month, so I'm not quite sure what it looks like. That's because she's a teenager. I think it has carpeting Right. You got to stay out of there. That's a teenager's room. Yeah Two, you're not giving your child the opportunity to develop that thoughtful and empathetic frame of mind that is the foundation of having good manners, right? So instead of doing the what do you say? Sort of line, instead you're going to do the polite thing for your child and in front of them, and then later on you'll have a private conversation at a time and place when your child won't feel embarrassed or ashamed for not using their manners. So, for example, wasn't that so nice of Aunt Blanche to give you that lollipop? Did you hear me say thank you to her? That's because I wanted to let her know that you and I appreciated her kindness in giving you that lollipop. It makes people feel good when we show them that we appreciate them, and that can make us feel good too.

Jenny GK: 11:29

Got it, got it.

Caitlin K: 11:30

Yeah. So again, you're modeling and then explaining. The third thing you're going to do is rethink your notion of misbehavior, and this should say Caitlin, you need to rethink your notion of misbehavior, because misbehavior and age appropriate things tend to overlap quite a bit here. Right, being obsessed with raising polite kids can actually cause you me, all of us to judge our own children for their developmentally appropriate behavior. And judgment has absolutely no place in parenting, whether that's you of another parent or you of your child. Right, right, hands down.

Caitlin K: 12:16

When I read that line from the child psychologist, I was absolutely in agreement with that one. So along those lines, judgment doesn't have any place in parenting. Neither does shame Keep shame out of this. It doesn't work on your kid. Neither does shame Keep shame out of this, it doesn't work on your kid. And ultimately, the shame that you feel about your child not using their manners needs to be let go of also.

Caitlin K: 12:39

Okay, chances are pretty high that aunt Blanche didn't even notice that one missing thank you from your kid. So let it go. And the other thing is, you know what else? Other parents get it, the ones who don't get it, uh, to have just shown you that you're not having another play date with them again. The end Wow, it's true. How many parents like I think that that's one of the beautiful things about our generation of parenting is that we're all like girl, don't worry about cleaning up your house before I show up, I don't care, because we all understand that this is hard, right? So the parent who's like um, your child did not say thank you for the popsicle that I gave him after he got off the trampoline is going to like what. I'm not sending my kid back over to you again, thanks.

Jenny GK: 13:29

Yeah, or they're like me and be like okay, I'm going to give everybody a popsicle, and what?

Caitlin K: 13:33

are you?

Jenny GK: 13:34

all going to say when I give it to you, right?

Caitlin K: 13:37

I'd rather that, like I give a reminder beforehand, right? Okay, so the second little category that we're talking about is front loading. We've talked about this term before. This is my major belief in teaching. It's my major belief in every single thing that I learn and that other people learn. I believe that you need to have the vocabulary in order to be a functioning member of a community, right? So we're going to, with manners, front load the vocabulary. What I mean is pre teach manners, okay.

Jenny GK: 14:09

Got it, got it.

Caitlin K: 14:10

So that doesn't mean pre-teaching like please and thank you. That's not what we're getting at. We're talking about having, first of all, regular conversations about caring for other people. Okay, Remember what I said earlier about how manners are about respect. Whenever you can just have a conversation about how we show kindness and respect to others, If the opportunity arises, say things like oh, we don't comment on other people's bodies, or if someone can fix that in five minutes, then you can tell them that they have something in their teeth. If they can't fix it in five minutes, then we don't say anything about it at all. Right, Stuff like that, Exactly.

Caitlin K: 14:49

The other another way you can front load the vocabulary or pre-teach the manners is play games that teach manners right, when you're having a situation in which you would be modeling. Pretend play for those younger kids is great here, when they want to play restaurant or house. This is the time to teach the manners right. You can intentionally model. Oh, thank you so much for bringing me my dinner. Meanwhile it's like you know, a box of crayons and some tape, but whatever, it's fine. Thank you so much for bringing me my dinner. It's great. Okay For older kids.

Jenny GK: 15:20

You're going to think, or this is cold, Would you please bring it back to the chef and tell him to refire it? I said it politely. Yes, you did.

Caitlin K: 15:30

Okay For older kids. Think about other things you might play, like card games, board games, any opportunity that you have to talk about taking turns, being honest and being a good sport. All of those are good opportunities to teach manners. Again, you're just modeling them. You're not necessarily saying like well, I passed out these seven cards to you. It's time for you to say thank you, right, yeah, you're going to also consider watching TV shows that model good manners. What have we said before? Daniel Tiger can raise my child because and he did for an entire year.

Caitlin K: 16:09

Bless the pandemic.

Jenny GK: 16:10

Thank you, 2020. Right.

Caitlin K: 16:11

Again, this kind of applies to younger kids. Like Daniel Tiger is a younger kid show, but things like Sesame street and Mr Rogers neighborhood and Blippi Daniel Tiger they all are great opportunities to teach manners, because all of those shows are primarily about being kind to other people, Right so?

Jenny GK: 16:28

and as your kid gets older, just put on great British bakingaking Show.

Caitlin K: 16:31

They are also kind. See, I'm starting to like that show. I'm so happy, so happy. He's like can we watch Great British Baking Show? I'm like, yeah, which season? 5 through 12.

Jenny GK: 16:43

Nadia's season. Every year Nadia's season.

Caitlin K: 16:46

I like Sahul, I mean precious.

Jenny GK: 16:48

Understandable yes.

Caitlin K: 16:49

Precious, right, okay, you can also again, we're front-loading the vocabulary here. We're pre-teaching those manners Read books that emphasize social and emotional learning, because those books are primarily about caring and showing respect for others. So I have a list here. This is just a sample, but these are some of my favorites that we have in our house. So one is the Rainbow Fish by Marcus Pfister I Am Enough. By Grace Byers, which is beautiful. It's like poetry. I love that book. Jabari Jumps by Gaia Cornwall, I love Jabari Jumps. It is the sweetest little book. The Invisible Boy by Patrice Barton, the Boy with Big, big Feelings, which is a popular one. I've seen around a lot lately but that one's by Brittany Wynne Lee and one of our favorite series in our house the Bad Seed, the Good Egg, the Smart Cookie those are all great ones the Couch Potato.

Jenny GK: 17:43

The Couch Potato is a great one. That's the favorite one in our house.

Caitlin K: 17:45

Yep, we do like that one too, and those are all by Jory John and the illustrator is Pete Oswalt and it's they're all amazing. So those are some great ones. And the that bad seed good egg ones, those get really good for older kids too. Yeah, okay. So we've talked about working on yourself, we've talked about pre-teaching. Now we're going to talk about what happens when you're actually at the event, where the manners need to be happening, where my anxiety just spiked even thinking about this particular category. So when you're at the event, whatever it might be, first of all, most important thing, do not treat your child like they are the third wheel. Why I want to be here and hang out with adults and talk to adults, because this is for adult time. Uh, no, this one should be obvious, because if you ignore your kid at an event, what will your kid do?

Jenny GK: 18:43

They will absolutely get your attention.

Caitlin K: 18:46

Find a way to make sure you don't ignore them, right? You already know what that means. In my experience, it means I might be dragging my child out in a football hold, just saying I prefer a fireman's carry. That's a good one too, but I have been kicked. I have been kneed in the face.

Jenny GK: 19:06

So I choose the football yeah. Okay.

Caitlin K: 19:09

Yeah, if you have. If you are lucky enough to be at an event where there are multiple children, you might encourage some child play time. However, if it's you and an adult and then your child is there, you're going to want to find a way to include them in an age appropriate way in whatever conversation you're having. So if it means that you're asking them what their favorite color is great, no problem. But if you can't happen to engage them in the conversation in that moment, I like to put my hand on a shoulder or just kind of color, along with my child or something, just so that he knows I'm still there, he still has my attention, he's not forgotten about, even though I'm engaged in a discussion with another adult.

Jenny GK: 19:59

Right, Right, and I think this kind of parlays into the next point you have about the minimizing interruptions. Because this is a big thing in our family is like there is a way for you to tell me that you need attention that is positive and will get attention.

Caitlin K: 20:14

Now, emergency situations are not what we're talking about here.

Jenny GK: 20:20

Oh yeah, no, come on. If there's a dog like you need to tell me there's a dog, I want to pet this dog. That's an emergency.

Caitlin K: 20:28

Dog equals emergency, okay. Hug equals emergency, okay. But in the event that you can't possibly get your child to leave you alone for this conversation, you're going to work on gentle interruption methods, okay? So my favorite one is having my child just put his hand, like on my hand or on my elbow, somewhere on my on my hand or on my elbow, somewhere on my forearm. He knows that he can touch that part of me and that that means he's got something to say, and then he knows that I will break for the like, find a break in the conversation and then turn my attention to him in that moment we do the same, and it's normally some kind of response of like okay, I hear you.

Jenny GK: 21:13

I know that you need to talk to me. Hang on just a moment while we finish our sentence and I'll come back to you.

Caitlin K: 21:17

Exactly, and I will. Even if he's got his hand on me, I will also touch his hands, that he knows. I'm aware that his hand is there. And then I can turn to him and I can say I would love to hear what you have to say. Give me just a minute. While I'm I'm I'm talking with this other adult. Give me just one moment and then I will give you my attention, like I will come find or like, if it's just you're going to go play again, you just want to say something. Okay, I will find you when there's a break in this conversation and you can tell me what you wanted to tell me. So a gentle method is is best here. So a gentle method is best here I agree.

Jenny GK: 21:55

And again, like if it's standard and it's the same every time, it goes into those expectations, like your kid knows that this is going to work. It doesn't work if it doesn't work Right. If you ignore the hand or you ignore the bump or whatever it is that you've decided is going to be your nonverbal. I need attention signal. If you ignore that, it doesn't work Right, it has to get attention every single time, even if it's, like you said, just a tap back on the hand like hey, I know you want to talk to me, but you have to respond to it, otherwise it's not going to work.

Caitlin K: 22:26

Right, it's, that's, and that's what I'll usually do is I'll just put my hand you know exactly where he's got his hand I just cover his hand up with mine and he knows I, I see you, I know you're here, I understand, but you're right, because otherwise it'll escalate and also you're kind of violating a trust agreement there. If you've said I will respond to you when I can and then you don't respond, that's, that's not okay, so that's not going to help anything, okay. Okay, the last one we've already talked about this before. We were being sneaky about it, but we did already talk about it and that is praise your child. Okay, always, what's gets praised gets repeated Exactly. Always.

Caitlin K: 23:09

Call out anything you want to see more of from your kid. They put their dishes away. Call it out, right. They say please and thank you. You say, oh, my gosh, thank you so much for using your manners Like something that gets their attention so that they know that made you happy.

Caitlin K: 23:27

Praise goes so much further than scolding or shame does. Okay. So ultimately, remember that manners are about kindness, making other people feel good. When you raise kids, they also feel good. So just keeping that in mind as you work on this whole manners thing is going to be a really, really helpful trick for you Always praise the things you want to see more of.

Caitlin K: 23:53

So we've got 10 things here. We're going to focus on ourselves. Okay, we're going to also front load vocabulary and pre-teach the manners, and then at the event, we're going to make sure we pay attention to our kid but also praise anything we see. So that's a real quick summary, but there are 10 things I've listed here and I'll put them all on the blog post for this episode so that you can go back and look, and I'll put the original source article so you can read a little bit more about the expert and get some other ideas. So, with that short break, be right back. Bye For links to resources mentioned in this episode. Head on over to ckandgkpodcastcom slash blog to find everything you need, and be sure to follow us on social media. Head over to your favorite social media network and find us at CK and GK podcast. And now back to the show.

Jenny GK: 24:46

Are we back? We're back, we're back. Okay, I touched you on the hand you did.

Caitlin K: 24:51

It was a gentle interruption. Thank you, yes, okay. Do you have any obsessions right now? Of course you do, okay, yes, that's the segment of the show I do, so here's the thing.

Jenny GK: 25:00

I know that it is post-Christmas, okay, but this year, a few weeks before Christmas, no, you cannot. Yeah, I don't like that either.

Caitlin K: 25:10

I don't like it.

Jenny GK: 25:11

I know that you're excited about it and that's cute, but no, you can't.

Caitlin K: 25:15

Yeah.

Jenny GK: 25:16

That's so.

Caitlin K: 25:17

ADHD, by the way, to be like. I don't want to surprise you, but I really want to know if you're going to like it right now. So can I?

Jenny GK: 25:23

put you right now, or do you want to?

Caitlin K: 25:24

tell you what it is. Yeah, it's so.

Jenny GK: 25:28

ADHD. So what he gave me was something that goes with our New Year's Eve tradition, and I've talked about this on the show before. Every year for New Year's Eve, we get all dolled up and we go to a big gala. No, we do not. No, we do not.

Caitlin K: 25:42

No, I know your tradition Because we are parents of two children. I was about to call you out for lying.

Jenny GK: 25:45

So there's no way that we are going to a gala. No, we watch the mighty ducks and drink soviet block. Perfect, because on new year's eve of like 2015, we went on a wine tour in New Zealand and the guy asked us I know you like Lord of the Rings, which is why you're here, but what is your favorite trilogy of all time? John says probably Star Wars, and I said, oh, absolutely back to the future. No question. He says okay, well, mine is mighty ducks, and I've never met another person on this planet who first considers Mighty Ducks a trilogy. It is, secondly, would call it the greatest of all time okay.

Caitlin K: 26:18

I have a question why is Dior's Back to the Future?

Jenny GK: 26:20

Back to the Future 2 is terrible it is, but it is the length that is required to have number three. Okay, fair, I gotcha, because number two is bad. He doesn't get the book way too many times.

Caitlin K: 26:37

And like let him get the book and it makes it's. It makes me uncomfortable. Like there's scenes in each one of them that make me uncomfortable, Right Like the one with Biff. It's always Biff doing Biff things with the mother, but it's still like OK, as long as I understand that actor do his bit of like, stop asking me the questions.

Jenny GK: 26:53

Yeah, and he sings a song and it's always like what was it working with michael j fox? It was fine. Yeah, I've seen it. Are you really that mean? No, no, I'm an actor.

Caitlin K: 27:04

That's what I do, gosh, oh, my goodness, poor guy um but he's an archetype, like he's supposed to be a bully. That's the whole point of the story. That's exactly right. A 50s bully which is like the most stereotypical kind of bully on the planet, who gives wedgies and like haven't looked this up, find it.

Jenny GK: 27:22

You can just google.

Caitlin K: 27:23

Stop asking me the questions and you'll see it and you'll see it, but anyway, so, um, mighty ducks, right.

Jenny GK: 27:28

So every year after that we have drank, uh, the same bottle of sovino blancanc from the winery that buys grapes from this guy's grandfather. Also, their winery has a restaurant and we ate there.

Caitlin K: 27:41

So that's where all of this went down. There's some sentimental stuff with this.

Jenny GK: 27:44

I gotcha and we watched the Mighty Ducks Perfect. Well, this year John got me a Mighty Ducks jersey.

Caitlin K: 27:51

Oh, which one, which one? Oh, okay, one, which one, which one?

Jenny GK: 27:54

Oh, okay, first off, it's Adam Banks Okay, that's a good one who we know was like the linchpin yes, Right, like if Banks hadn't been in District 5, they would not have gone this far.

Caitlin K: 28:05

This is true, they needed him.

Jenny GK: 28:06

Right, so is it the Secondly the but secondly the green it is. Oh, it is green and it is from the first movie, the weird like cartoon duck with D5 on it. Yes, that's the one. Yeah, no, it is not the stylized. Hey, disney made a movie. Everyone loved it. So they bought a hockey team and moved them to Anaheim and made a cool logo.

Caitlin K: 28:28

No, no, no, it needed to be the movie jersey. No, no, no, it needed to be the movie jersey. No, it is the movie jersey. Oh yes, well done John.

Jenny GK: 28:36

Well done, it's good, it's really good, so I might have worn it a couple of times since then.

Caitlin K: 28:42

Yeah, in public. Yeah, it's fine.

Jenny GK: 28:45

Dude. Okay, I dropped my sister, I dropped Abby off at her friend's house.

Caitlin K: 28:51

Wearing the jersey.

Jenny GK: 28:52

Her friend looks at me. She was like wow, you're dolled up, aren't you?

Caitlin K: 28:58

teenagers give the meanest shade.

Jenny GK: 29:02

My goodness and it just shows like I have a good relationship with this kid because, remember, I've been her teacher and I've been her friend's mom and she's's spent as many nights here as Abby has over there.

Caitlin K: 29:12

Right.

Jenny GK: 29:12

But it was too funny that she looked me up and down. I'm like I'm sorry, what do?

Caitlin K: 29:18

you have on your body right now. They don't know anything. They don't know the magic that is, and your child is as close to Gen X as possibly could be. Yeah, so she knows, but they don't know.

Jenny GK: 29:35

Well, and she doesn't, yeah, so she knows, but they don't know.

Caitlin K: 29:36

Mighty ducks every year, right she's watched a lot of mighty ducks right? Oh gosh, there were. That reminds me of when we were on the cruise and we wore the bad t-shirts, and you actually wore yours for a long time, you guys. My husband got jenny a shirt. Oh it is so good that is picture the mayor no, first, first, no, first.

Jenny GK: 29:52

you need to know, before you know, what picture it is. You need to know that it is a dry fit t-shirt. Yes, it is. It is not a cotton poly blend like every other t-shirt on the planet.

Caitlin K: 30:01

No, this is like golf jersey shirt, shiny fabric, like bicycle jersey, but like oversized, oversized bicycle jersey is perfect.

Jenny GK: 30:11

That is the explanation.

Caitlin K: 30:12

Picture the chicken flavor. Maruchan robin packet orange yellow says chicken has picture of noodles. That is what this shirt is.

Jenny GK: 30:24

I'm not joking and nothing else, and nothing else. It's not like a picture of the logo and be like I love ramen. No, it is just the entire shirt is a package of ramen.

Caitlin K: 30:33

It looks like they.

Jenny GK: 30:34

They took the package of ramen, laid it out and made it out of it and then cut it into a shirt?

Caitlin K: 30:40

yes, that's exactly. Yeah, it looks. It's hilariously ridiculous. You were not wearing that. You were wearing a mighty ducks jersey and you still got shade. So I think you're the queen of just owning it. That's the thing thing. And I told my husband this you were gonna own whatever shirt you got. We tried, we thought of so many different things. There was an eagle one, there was a majestic, like eagle in front of a moon. There were a few things, and I was like it doesn't matter how ridiculous you try to make the shirt, she will find a way to rock it. And what happened? Went out on into classes on the boat and got compliments. Compliments on your marishan ramen shirt. Yep, so you wear that mighty ducks jersey. You would have gotten so many more if you had worn a mighty ducks jersey on that cruise, because disney people would have been all over that are you kidding me that mighty ducks jersey is coming with me on every vacation?

Jenny GK: 31:37

I go on for the rest of my life, yeah it's amazing.

Caitlin K: 31:40

Anyway, my gem is so, or my gem, my obsession, is so much more basic than that, and I don't mean like basic, like oh my god, she's so basic. I mean like I had oral surgery.

Jenny GK: 31:54

That was part of why we weren't doing episodes y'all, they took top of her mouth off to put it on another part of her mouth it's called gum grafting.

Caitlin K: 32:01

It's not fun. I looked like mrs potato head on.

Jenny GK: 32:05

This is like that surgery where they take fat off your belly and put it on your butt. Only here they only. It's the roof of your mouth, your roof of your mouth to the side of your mouth.

Caitlin K: 32:14

I've been telling people that my mouth, the inside of my mouth, feels like, you know, at the end of ferris bueller's day off, when the the girl offers the principal a gummy bear and she's like and they're real warm because they've been in my pocket, like that's what it feels like inside my mouth. That's what the roof of my mouth feels like is a warm gummy bear but like a sticky one.

Jenny GK: 32:39

It's disgusting Right.

Caitlin K: 32:40

So part of the healing process is that you can't it's like wisdom teeth, where you can't like have any suction of any sort in your mouth. So I couldn't drink out of a straw, but I can drink out of a straw. Do you know how hard it is when you are have an emotional support water bottle and you and it has a straw and you can't use it. Like what did you? Have to do, take the lid off yeah, I had to take the lid off, which is not that big of a deal, right?

Caitlin K: 33:05

but no, it's huge part of the emotional support water that's like that could just changing your life.

Jenny GK: 33:10

It really was.

Caitlin K: 33:15

I can drink out of a straw.

Jenny GK: 33:17

It would not be. Water bottle with straw, it would be. How do I drink at a restaurant?

Caitlin K: 33:22

Well, and that's a piece of it too, Like it's not. You're not going anywhere when you have this done because your mouth is like you're a mess, but it's a warm gummy bear. It's a warm gummy bear on the inside and that's healing. That's how it feels like when it's healing, so that's a good thing, but it just is disgusting. But it's the minor inconveniences that you can't think about. It's like oh, I really wanted some sparkling water. Oh, guess what? You can't have carbonation because the bubbles can like mess up the grafting process. So, like all of this stuff, yeah, has been a no-go.

Jenny GK: 33:56

So now we go through a case of sparkling water every three days in our family.

Caitlin K: 34:00

Well, and I don't drink it all the time, but I do drink it.

Jenny GK: 34:03

I drink four packages every two weeks, sometimes, more often than not, always LaCroix tea, lime yeah, most of the time. I think right now we also have some strawberry peach.

Caitlin K: 34:13

We do like the mango also at our house. The mango is good too.

Jenny GK: 34:17

And the beach plum is good.

Caitlin K: 34:20

Oh, I haven't had that one.

Jenny GK: 34:20

It's good, that's good. Okay, I'll have to do that. And then there's that cherry lime one that comes in the tall skinny cans but that's outside of our price range. Yeah, you only get eight. Right, give me the 12 kids anyway.

Caitlin K: 34:32

So that's why I'm obsessed with it, because I'm like my emotional support. Water bottles are back in my life. I'm so happy I'm drinking out of my brugmate now well, and it's gonna be beneficial to your skin.

Caitlin K: 34:43

More water yes, more well, and that's the other thing too is like you forget, like how much I drink out of a straw, like, and I've been doing it because I have sensitive teeth, like that's the whole reason for doing it. It helps, like the acid not be on the front of your teeth all the time if you drink from a straw, so that's why I've been doing it. So now I can't drink. It's been, it's been a mess. So anyway, I'm happy to have straws back because they're wonderful. Do you have any gems?

Jenny GK: 35:07

Yes, okay, so we have talked about the fact that I've hurt my knee.

Caitlin K: 35:11

Yes, poor thing, and I'm still in the healing process.

Jenny GK: 35:14

Yeah, but to help with moving around the house I have been using one crutch, oh, just the one, just the one, because I don't really need to like not put weight on it at all, I just need help like stabilizing. Okay, because then my knee can definitely hold weight Like I could stand on one leg if I wanted to. Sure, it's the like. I don't trust it and I definitely can't straighten or bend it all the way. It kind of just hangs out at this 120-degree angle all day long. Oh, which has given me really nice calves on my other side, I'm sure. Yeah, for real. But I've been walking around with one crutch and John's been calling me Gandalf. He has walked around behind me in the house playing the Lord of the Rings music. Stop it.

Caitlin K: 36:02

While I hobble around. That's not nice. Well it's funny, we went on vacation.

Jenny GK: 36:07

Okay, oh, it's hilarious.

Caitlin K: 36:08

Yeah, it's very funny.

Jenny GK: 36:09

It doesn't hurt my feelings at all, if it did, he would not do it. Sure, no, I think it's funny. And also this whole injury is funny. I hurt myself jumping up and down.

Jenny GK: 36:16

Let's be real, yeah, you did Not playing a sport, not doing something like crazy athletic or like, oh yeah, I was in the X Games and I hurt myself. No, I was passing out teacher presents and said Merry Christmas. Oh, that just made a sound. Anyway, we are staying at a hotel recently that has a lot of bridges through the atrium, because there's like a river that runs through the hotel and I'm hobbling along with my one little crutch, and now my whole family is making fun of me. Oh, come on, Gandalf, get along. Where's your robe?

Caitlin K: 36:48

Well, I stop on one of these bridges and then the loudest voice yes, I did, yes, I did.

Jenny GK: 36:54

I slammed the crutch down and called out you shall not pass as loud as I could in this seven-story atrium. And it echoes through the. Oh my goodness, I was like I'm gonna own this guys.

Caitlin K: 37:10

Yeah, you are just like you said gotta own it comfort. Right, you got, you can't. No downward social comparison. That is the name of jenny's game. I dive embarrassment for her and myself, and yet she's like no, I'm gonna wear the ramen shirt, I'm gonna be gandalf on this bridge no, I'm, I'm seriously considering a cloak and the deal deal is John has said like I'll buy you two.

Jenny GK: 37:36

You can be Gandalf the Grey until you're healed and then, when you're better, you can be the white and we'll get you a white cloak.

Caitlin K: 37:45

It's too bad that Halloween's over, right, because this would be a really good Halloween costume.

Jenny GK: 37:50

Well, according to some research, it could be nine months before I'm back on my feet.

Caitlin K: 37:56

Okay, so perfect. It might be right in time, it might be just in time, perfect, great, oh gosh.

Jenny GK: 38:02

It's all right, it's funny. Yeah, it's like a new little accessory I get to wear all the time. Yay, I wonder if they make knee braces in like different colors.

Caitlin K: 38:12

We're going to bedazzle it.

Jenny GK: 38:14

Right knee uh, knee braces in like different colors. We're gonna bedazzle it, right? That joke has already been made too about the cane. Like if I have to get a cane, you know it's gonna be like the flashiest, like most americ, uh, most amazing cane ever yeah, get some inspiration from tom haverford when he was looking at dragon serpent yes dragon right, right.

Caitlin K: 38:30

Um, okay, mine is is that I compared women's anatomy to a car. Wait, what? So? My son was having those sex education courses that they do at the end of the term in December in Austin schools. One day he was like so like, I know like a little bit more about stuff, but like, is a woman's body like harder? And I was like what do you mean? He's like, is it just harder to be a girl like, is it just harder?

Jenny GK: 39:04

and in my head I'm screaming like yes, yes, it is smash that patriarchy right now, right well, and I think he just meant physically.

Caitlin K: 39:12

No, of course I know, the answer is still a resounding yes, like yes, yes, no.

Jenny GK: 39:18

That's one of those times where you really have to think about what question is being asked right, exactly.

Caitlin K: 39:23

Um, am I really gonna answer this? No, right, but I did, because of course I did so I was like, well, can you? And he's like I, just like one of my friends who I'm not gonna name on the show it was like it's just all the stuff that goes into being a girl just seems like a lot and like she was like I don't want to do puberty and girl same okay, but you know, hopefully you do if they want, if if people wanted to do it, they'd give it a better name.

Jenny GK: 39:49

That's a horrible word. I hate that word.

Caitlin K: 39:51

Right, that's what I'm saying, so um they call it like super happy fun time right and middle school would be called awesome school right, it would not suck nearly as much as it does anyway. So, um, I was like, well, yeah, it's like it just kind of needs more. Yeah, it's like it just kind of needs more maintenance. And he was like what? And I just went like you know like how, like you, there's just more parts that need to be looked after and it's harder to get to them because of where they are. It's like when you take your car to the shop and they have to open up the hood and then look inside the engine. And then I think at one point I just went, just stop talking. Just stop talking right now, because he's already moved on.

Jenny GK: 40:42

Yeah, and like I mean, I thought the metaphor worked. Number one oh, it totally does. Yeah, I drove an f-150 from the 90s for a long time and you could climb inside that engine block to work on that car oh my, I did so much maintenance on it myself.

Caitlin K: 40:56

Wow, good for you.

Jenny GK: 40:58

In the car I drive now, like the whole thing's wrapped in plastic, like I don't even know where the engine is. I mean, I do I'm not that dumb, but still like everything is in a container and it's hard to find and it's not easy to get in there and maintain it.

Caitlin K: 41:12

They do it on purpose, so you have to take it in together.

Jenny GK: 41:14

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, okay. The other thing is the way I normally handle these questions is much like you just did. I just throw all the science in that I can, yeah, and make it as boring and as medicinal as possible. Yeah, and I'm, I'm like, oh and use. I use all the anatomical words and just over and, over and over again and just keep nattering until the kid is like okay, mom, I'm done.

Caitlin K: 41:44

Well, and that's, and I'm pretty sure he turned.

Jenny GK: 41:47

Everything I told you is true. It's just really boring the way I presented it.

Caitlin K: 41:50

Right, and I'm pretty sure he tuned me out pretty quickly.

Jenny GK: 42:09

But Right, and I'm pretty sure he tuned me out pretty quickly. But I just, at some point I was just like why did I do this? Why did I say it like this, where I'm like, well, and then you have to take it to the shop and then people who are in there don't always know what they're doing. Sometimes you get an oil leak and blah blah.

Caitlin K: 42:16

I'm just like why am I talking about this? Just stop talking. When you get those back tires up in the stirrups, when you get those back tires up in the stirrups, it's like this is real, oh, car fart Anyway. So that's what I did. That was my gem, ridiculous.

Jenny GK: 42:26

It's amazing.

Caitlin K: 42:27

Don't do it, All right y'all, it's not good manners.

Jenny GK: 42:33

Yes, when you are thinking about the beauty that is the female body, unless it is a 67 Mustang, don't compare it to a car or a Shelby GT4. Okay, that's a Shelby or, or I I. My number one favorite car is the Ford Galaxy 500 XL Sunliner, but nobody knows what that is, because it didn't do very well. Yeah, but its taillights look like rockets, so of course it like makes it. Oh yeah, it was a total nerd car, yeah Well don't wait, make good choices.

Caitlin K: 43:06

Yeah, don't don't do that. I'm going to create a very unhealthy obsession with some guy and his car at this point with this conversation. So I'm just going to move on, and manners are about making people feel comfortable, unlike this last. You know four minutes of our conversation here, so we're just gonna go. Okay, okay, okay, bye.