00:00:02 - Jenny GK
It's Tuesday.

00:00:04 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. And we are. Are we in December? Is it Tuesday? December? Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, we are really glad you're. Oh, goodness.

00:00:12 - Jenny GK
Sorry.

00:00:13 - Caitlin Kindred
We're so glad you're here today. We are decoding the dress code, as in what to wear to all these holiday parties that may or may not be coming up for you. If you've got fomo, you need this episode. If you have Jomo, you just put your sweatpants on and keep on trucking. There you go. Listen for the fun of it. There you go.

00:00:35 - Jenny GK
But first with me, as always, is Caitlin, the very definition of tropical black tie casual.

00:00:44 - Caitlin Kindred
Thanks. I can't wait to find out what that means in this episode. That's Jenny, my fantastically precious party elf.

00:00:55 - Jenny GK
Love it.

00:00:56 - Caitlin Kindred
I made that one up myself.

00:00:57 - Jenny GK
Oh, you did a great job.

00:00:58 - Caitlin Kindred
Ah, thank you.

00:01:00 - Jenny GK
Being a party elf. Kit and I just watched Polar Express last night. I forgot how creepy that movie is.

00:01:07 - Caitlin Kindred
It is. The animation is creepy, right?

00:01:10 - Jenny GK
The animation is creepy.

00:01:11 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. It has always like the kind of.

00:01:14 - Jenny GK
Thing they're gonna haunt me in my dreams.

00:01:15 - Caitlin Kindred
It has always freaked me out. Yeah. Did you see the meme where the little girl in that movie, that beautiful, precious little girl, they put her next to Drake with his new hairstyle. Oh, I cackled when I saw that.

00:01:33 - Jenny GK
Braids. And with her sweet little braid.

00:01:35 - Caitlin Kindred
He looks just like her. Why did he do that to his hair?

00:01:38 - Jenny GK
That's funny.

00:01:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, yeah.

00:01:39 - Jenny GK
Yeah.

00:01:39 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay, so I've got some shout outs for today. I want to love it. So there are. Did you know? You knew. But listener, dear listener, that you don't just have to subscribe to our show on your favorite listening platform. You can also subscribe to our email list. And when you do that, I give you early access to episodes. As in you get to listen because I before the rest of the world. Because I put it in a place where you get to see it. So you can subscribe to our email list so you never miss an episode at the link in our show notes or you can just go to our website, there's a form on our home page and just let us know that you want to be a part of it and I'll send you an email when it matters. I won't send you emails if it doesn't matter.

00:02:25 - Jenny GK
Right.

00:02:25 - Caitlin Kindred
Because who needs that, right? So thanks to everyone who is subscribing. Our email list is growing and it's getting very exciting and our website traffic is up because you guys are so amazing supporting our show. Thank you.

00:02:39 - Jenny GK
Thanks. Okay, now it's Time for us to talk about holiday parties, dear. Well, or parties in general. Weddings.

00:02:48 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:02:49 - Jenny GK
Anytime that you would get an invitation with a dress code on it. Also, side note, I should say that when I asked Caitlin, hey, do you want to do a show on dress codes? She was like. And thought I was talking about school dress code. I was like, you tell me you're a teacher without telling me you're a teacher?

00:03:06 - Caitlin Kindred
And then what did I tell you.

00:03:07 - Jenny GK
After that you could take the teacher out of the school, but you cannot take the school out of the teacher.

00:03:12 - Caitlin Kindred
A hundred percent. And I have. I know that as a teacher, I was tasked with enforcing dress code. However, my opinion is that dress codes are inherently sexist, and I don't like them. So I was like, can we please not do this episode well?

00:03:27 - Jenny GK
And this is why, when I stepped into this role in administration, I changed the language and said, it's not a dress code. It's a uniform. And uni means one. There's one way to wear it. This is not about who can and who can't. This isn't about what we're choosing. It's. This is the uniform, and this is how you wear it.

00:03:44 - Caitlin Kindred
Yep.

00:03:44 - Jenny GK
And it made it a whole lot easier.

00:03:46 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:03:48 - Jenny GK
Plus, like, if you get out of the car with this skirt that short, clearly your family's fine with it, so I'm not going to spend a lot of energy on it.

00:03:54 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, exactly.

00:03:56 - Jenny GK
Like, if your dad says it's okay, then why am I.

00:04:00 - Caitlin Kindred
It's not my job to dress you like I dress myself, and I make sure my kid has clothes.

00:04:05 - Jenny GK
In the case of the boys, like, if mom says it's okay for your underwear to stick out of your pants, I'm gonna be like, hey, I really don't want to see your boxers. And then I'm gonna leave it at that.

00:04:13 - Caitlin Kindred
Right. Like, the end anyway, you got out.

00:04:15 - Jenny GK
Of the car like that. It's fine.

00:04:17 - Caitlin Kindred
Right.

00:04:17 - Jenny GK
Okay. Anyway, so you get an invitation, and it has a dress code on it. Today we're going to kind of dissect each one of those and talk about what you can wear to an event based on the dress code. Okay, but before we do any of that, I want to say that this whole episode is moot, because what you can really just do is talk to the host and say, I just want to check in on the dress code I was thinking of wearing. Da, da, da da. What are other people wearing? Oh, and if you're gonna go to more than one event in a day, if you are Party hopping. Just dress for the fancier one because you can always tell people like, oh, I have another event after this. Now you can also just dress fancy and lie and say you have another event after this. That does two things. Number one, helps you, your dress code. Oh, yeah, I'm overdressed because I have something else. And secondly, it gives you an out. Oh, I have to go. I have another event at 9:00. Sorry, guys.

00:05:13 - Caitlin Kindred
And you can Irish goodbye that mess.

00:05:15 - Jenny GK
Yeah, the event is me watching a movie on the couch. But hey, nobody knows it's a fancy movie. Okay. So I tried to organize this in order of most casual to most fancy.

00:05:32 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:05:32 - Jenny GK
The information comes from two different websites. One is an article called Decoding Invitation Dress Codes from the Huffington Post. And the other one is called Dress codes from Casual to White Tie from Emily Post. So we're just posting it up. So casual is the first one. If you see the word casual, we are talking about informal, comfortable, yet clean and professional clothing. Okay. I made this mistake when I was.

00:06:03 - Caitlin Kindred
Young wearing dirty clothes to people's parties.

00:06:06 - Jenny GK
No. Someone told me this event is very casual. And so I came in, what is college casual? Jeans and a T shirt. And realized, oh, that's not actually what casual means. And I felt very uncomfortable for the entirety of the event. If you are attending an event where someone says it is casual, you can as a woman wear something like a sundress or a skirt, nice jeans or some kind of chino khaki pants. And depending on the event and the location, you could get away with dressier shorts.

00:06:44 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:06:46 - Jenny GK
A solid color tee style shirt, a polo shirt, a casual button down blouse. Those are all okay for casual.

00:06:55 - Caitlin Kindred
What about like a nicer tank? Like a tank top or something? If it's like not.

00:07:00 - Jenny GK
I think if. And later on I was, I'm gonna say to host, like, hey, tell us where the event is and what's happening. If you're going to a backyard barbecue in the middle of August in Texas, a tank top would be appropriate. However, if you are going to a casual wedding, I would say cover your shoulders.

00:07:20 - Caitlin Kindred
Interesting.

00:07:20 - Jenny GK
Okay. For men in a casual event, you're looking for again, chino khaki kind of pants or good looking jeans. Okay. So these are not the jeans that you mow the grass in this morning. They should be clean, they should have no holes, maybe some structure. Okay. If the jeans are more than five years old, they probably shouldn't be going to a quote unquote casual event because they have lost some of their shape.

00:07:47 - Caitlin Kindred
Interesting.

00:07:48 - Jenny GK
Okay. Now if these are like your good jeans and they're five years old and they stay in the closet, whatever, whatever, that's fine. But you know what I'm saying, like if these are your everyday jeans, they might not meet the need of this event. Depending on the climate and where the event is located, shorts could be okay. But again, these need to be a little bit dressier. Maybe they're ironed. Perhaps you can wear again a solid color shirt, a polo, a tea style shirt, and without a design. But really what's best is a shirt with buttons and a collar. And for men, the shoe choice could be sandals, could be sneakers, could be loafers, depending on what kind of pant you're wearing. If you are wearing sandals and they happen to have flip and flop in the name, they should be leather or of a similar material. They should not be plastic. Just saying. Caitlin's dying over here.

00:09:06 - Caitlin Kindred
I'm dying because I'm like picturing those like old Navy flip flops.

00:09:09 - Jenny GK
That is what I'm thinking. For a dollar whatever, the 99 cent multicolored. We would buy them and then we would tie strips of fabric to make them look like pom poms on our feet. It was like a whole craft. It was a very popular thing in my school.

00:09:24 - Caitlin Kindred
And then that one of my.

00:09:25 - Jenny GK
Well, that fabric would get all gross and dirty. So you could wear them like three times.

00:09:29 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, I remember like some people buying those and having them at weddings so like girls could dance without having to have hard, like awful shoes on.

00:09:38 - Jenny GK
I remember the first time I went to a wedding that had sandals in the bathroom. I was like, man, this is so fancy.

00:09:42 - Caitlin Kindred
This is really nice. Yeah. Meanwhile they just spent like, you know, 15 bucks. Whatever. But yeah, okay, that's, that all seems interesting. I'm surprised that a casual event requires a button down shirt, but I guess a polo could be like. That makes sense.

00:09:56 - Jenny GK
And again, gentlemen can totally get away with a solid color tea if it is well kept.

00:10:07 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, I'm, and I'm just thinking of what like guys, the, the line between casual and not casual. Like it's so easy for them to like quote, dress up for anything, whereas women have like the reason that there's 30 categories of dress code is because women have 30 categories of clothing. Right. It's. Guys have like four, so for them it's easy. Just slap on a polo and some nice khaki shorts and you're good to go.

00:10:32 - Jenny GK
I'm thinking if you have a plaid J. Crew button up and a pair of Khakis you fit into most of these categories, right?

00:10:39 - Caitlin Kindred
You can wear that to literally anything. And the only thing you need to add on is a blazer for a wedding. Like you're good. Like what? Okay, anyway, let's go on to the next one.

00:10:47 - Jenny GK
Okay, so the next one is dressy casual.

00:10:49 - Caitlin Kindred
And this is where I lose my mind.

00:10:51 - Jenny GK
Okay, so this is like think about if you were wearing working work clothes to a networking event. You're meeting people for the first time, but you are not interviewing.

00:11:03 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:11:04 - Jenny GK
Okay. This could also be what people would have called Sunday best. Oh, this is dress to impress. Okay, so for women, a skirt or a dressy top. A dressy pants outfit, nice jeans and a cute top. Right. That's everybody's favorite outfit. I'm gonna wear jeans and a cute top or a dress that's is not strapless or does not have spaghetti straps.

00:11:35 - Caitlin Kindred
Could it have like thicker. Like a thicker strap is probably okay.

00:11:38 - Jenny GK
Yeah, it's totally fine. Okay. For men, like we said, just wear clothes. No, Some kind of chino style pant. It should probably be ironed and depending on the weather, either a dress shirt or a polo with the open collar. Ties not necessary. You can throw on a sport coat if the weather calls for it.

00:12:07 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:12:09 - Jenny GK
All right, Next is business. Now some people might call this business formal. This is different than business casual. You can think of business casual as dressy casual, but business is you are going to a grown up job interview.

00:12:24 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:12:25 - Jenny GK
You're wearing a suit.

00:12:27 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:12:27 - Jenny GK
Okay. Women or men suit. Now, depending on the industry, some women interchangeable with a suit would be a structured dress. I like to think of what would a news anchor wear?

00:12:46 - Caitlin Kindred
Huh.

00:12:47 - Jenny GK
Okay, so that's to me when I'm defining business. Like would I report at 5pm on this? Okay, the next one is semi formal or cocktail. These are the same thing, but they are, they're used interchangeably. But a lot of people don't know that they are the same thing. Okay, so if the event is after 6pm and when I was growing up after 5, we used to even call it like an after 5 dress. Then you're going to lean in the fancier category. But at a semi formal or a cocktail event, you're doing a little black dress. Okay. This is a shorter cocktail dress. It could be a long skirt, but it should be of a fabric that's a little less formal. So if you're going to wear a long satin skirt, you should probably wear a more casual top with it.

00:13:45 - Caitlin Kindred
Like a sweater, a nice oversized sweater and a. And A fancy, like a cute skirt, like that is such a great look. I love that look, especially for this time of year.

00:13:53 - Jenny GK
Yes.

00:13:53 - Caitlin Kindred
Great.

00:13:54 - Jenny GK
You can also wear, like dressy separates. A pants really cool jumpsuit would be cool. But for the most part, if you see semi formal, pull out the cocktail dress.

00:14:04 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:14:05 - Jenny GK
If you've got an LBD that you love, this is the time to put it to use.

00:14:09 - Caitlin Kindred
Well. And I'm just thinking, like, if I'm trying for myself, if I'm trying to differentiate between semi formal and cocktail, even though I don't need to, I'm almost thinking cocktail is happy hour sort of attire. Whereas semi formal. Is that after six that you're talking about? That's the way I am putting it together in my head. Okay.

00:14:25 - Jenny GK
In my case, there's sequins.

00:14:29 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes. Yes, there are.

00:14:31 - Jenny GK
But also there might be sequins in a casual outfit. So I don't know if that's fair. Okay. For men, for a semi formal or a cocktail event, you are wearing a full suit and tie.

00:14:41 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:14:42 - Jenny GK
You could wear a vest if you wanted to. The suit should be dark. It could be charcoal, could be navy, could be black. A lot of times men like you, you choose not to wear a black suit unless it's a business event or a funeral.

00:14:56 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:14:57 - Jenny GK
So go with a darker gray or a navy. Always looks good. You're going to be wanting to wear dress shoes and socks that match your.

00:15:11 - Caitlin Kindred
What?

00:15:12 - Jenny GK
Pants.

00:15:14 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm. I was going to say socks that match your personality.

00:15:18 - Jenny GK
Personality is great that this is the perfect time to wear socks that match your personality because this is where like.

00:15:23 - Caitlin Kindred
So my dad dresses business formal for work every day, but his socks are always where he shows a little personality.

00:15:30 - Jenny GK
No, that's amazing.

00:15:30 - Caitlin Kindred
I think.

00:15:31 - Jenny GK
Yeah.

00:15:31 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:15:31 - Jenny GK
Also a fun tie would be okay for this.

00:15:34 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm.

00:15:35 - Jenny GK
Depending on the event.

00:15:36 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:15:36 - Jenny GK
Right. If you are attending as a plus one, let's not wear the fun tie.

00:15:40 - Caitlin Kindred
No, you can save it for the socks.

00:15:42 - Jenny GK
Yeah.

00:15:42 - Caitlin Kindred
It could be a good conversation.

00:15:44 - Jenny GK
Funny. Socks are always great. That. That's a perfect time for this. Okay.

00:15:47 - Caitlin Kindred
Exactly.

00:15:48 - Jenny GK
So the next level is black tie optional. But when someone says black tie optional, they are hoping that you will sew up in a tux.

00:15:56 - Caitlin Kindred
Right. And they're giving you black tie optional. As in, like, if you don't have a tuxedo, you don't have to go get a tuxedo. But I'm gonna wear a tuxedo.

00:16:05 - Jenny GK
Right?

00:16:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Okay, Got it.

00:16:07 - Jenny GK
So you're looking for women, a floor length evening gown or a very dressy cocktail dress. If you're gonna go little black dress, you want to make sure that you are in dressy shoes and a dressy handbag to go along with it. If you are choosing to do dressy separates or a jumpsuit, make sure that it is elevated to the level of cocktail dress or evening gown. I had one that was fabulous. It was black and embroidered on the top and very, very dressy. Definitely to the level of an evening gown. But this is not the time for you to break out the denim jumpsuit.

00:16:48 - Caitlin Kindred
No, no.

00:16:49 - Jenny GK
Okay. For men, again, they are requesting that you wear a tuxedo. That's what black tie optional means. It says, like, hey, like Caitlin said, if you don't have one, you don't have to get one. But, like, we're kind of hoping you will.

00:17:01 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:17:02 - Jenny GK
If you decide not to go tux, we're looking for a dark suit and a white shirt, a very conservative neutral tie, and then leather shoes and dark socks. So again, this is like, I don't have a tux, but I'm dressing as closely to it as possible.

00:17:16 - Caitlin Kindred
There you go. That's a great way to put it.

00:17:18 - Jenny GK
Okay, so the next one is a little ambiguous and can be used poorly.

00:17:25 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh.

00:17:26 - Jenny GK
So if you're a host, listen. Okay, the next one is holiday or festive.

00:17:33 - Caitlin Kindred
Ooh.

00:17:36 - Jenny GK
This is ambiguous. Nobody knows what this means.

00:17:39 - Caitlin Kindred
No.

00:17:39 - Jenny GK
If you adhere to the Emily Post rules about holiday or festive. It's a cocktail dress.

00:17:46 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:17:47 - Jenny GK
It's an. It's a little black dress. It's a sport coat with maybe a fun festive tie, but it's leaning more into the semi formal range. But you need to check with the host because they might be thinking it's ugly sweater.

00:18:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Gosh.

00:18:06 - Jenny GK
Okay, so when someone puts festive or holiday as the dress, and they don't use another modifier like holiday casual, holiday sweater. Yes. Or funny festive. Like, you need to check with the host. It's totally fine because they might be thinking New Year's Eve gala, and you show up in Rudolph that lights up.

00:18:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, I'm dying of embarrassment in this hypothetical situation. Oh, okay.

00:18:44 - Jenny GK
All right. So the next one is black tie. This is more formal than business. It is the most common formal dress code for events like weddings, proms, dinner.

00:18:54 - Caitlin Kindred
Really?

00:18:55 - Jenny GK
Okay. It is the most common because it is easily defined.

00:18:59 - Caitlin Kindred
That makes sense.

00:19:00 - Jenny GK
Men are wearing a tux.

00:19:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:19:03 - Jenny GK
They are wearing a white shirt, and there is a black bow tie. If you have a bow tie that fits the theme of the event and it goes with your personality, much like the socks. You can get away with a not black bow tie in this situation.

00:19:20 - Caitlin Kindred
Like a Rudolph one.

00:19:21 - Jenny GK
Right. For women, you're wearing a floor length gown or a cocktail dress. That is the dressiest one you own.

00:19:31 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Okay.

00:19:32 - Jenny GK
Okay. Really? Most of the time, when someone sets black tie as a formal event, they are expecting women to wear dresses that go to the floor.

00:19:43 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay, good to know.

00:19:44 - Jenny GK
Yeah. You do not need to wear gloves to a black tie event.

00:19:50 - Caitlin Kindred
Ew.

00:19:51 - Jenny GK
And if you happen to be at a black tie event in the tropics or on a cruise, you can get away with a white jacket instead of a black one.

00:20:03 - Caitlin Kindred
For men, right? Or no, for women.

00:20:05 - Jenny GK
For men. For men. Let me tell you this. This is my own personal opinion about white jacket tucks. You look like a catering waiter.

00:20:14 - Caitlin Kindred
It also, like, it feels a little like wannabe Dean Martin. Right? Like, okay, Rat pack, calm down. You'll never be as cool as Sammy Davis, so just like chill out.

00:20:28 - Jenny GK
Right, Right, right. Put on your black jacket.

00:20:30 - Caitlin Kindred
Put on your black jacket now, if that's your thing. Okay, great. But like, it does. It does, you know, feel like maybe you might match the catering staff. So just be mindful of that. Also, if you're having a black Thai event in the tropics. Go away.

00:20:45 - Jenny GK
Come on.

00:20:46 - Caitlin Kindred
Go away. Sorry, that's just me being petty. But whatever.

00:20:50 - Jenny GK
No, but and again, like, some people, they might look great in a white jacket. Right? Like, you got this whole James. No, yeah, James Bond vibe. Like, whatever. That's fine.

00:20:59 - Caitlin Kindred
That's your thing.

00:21:00 - Jenny GK
Sure it is. Not mine. I just feel like white jacket is just. But that's. That's me being judgy. It's totally fine. Okay, so the most dressy, the most formal is white tie. That's a thing also called full evening dress.

00:21:21 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay, all right. Yeah. Then that then, yeah, I've heard of it.

00:21:23 - Jenny GK
My Fair lady. Yes.

00:21:28 - Caitlin Kindred
Tiara gloves.

00:21:29 - Jenny GK
Yes.

00:21:30 - Caitlin Kindred
The rain in Maine.

00:21:31 - Jenny GK
Got it. Yes. The idea here is the guests at this event might be royal, but they're definitely high caliber. They're getting a high honor. It is hoity toity. Okay, okay. White tie means you are wearing a tux or you are wearing a floor length evening gown. There is no other option.

00:22:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:22:02 - Jenny GK
You might even be wearing a tux with tails if you follow the dress code properly.

00:22:09 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, wow.

00:22:10 - Jenny GK
Okay.

00:22:11 - Caitlin Kindred
No Texas tuxes either.

00:22:12 - Jenny GK
No, no.

00:22:14 - Caitlin Kindred
Texas. Texas, folks, if you don't know, it's. It's a. It's tails and jeans.

00:22:19 - Jenny GK
Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. White tie says you're wearing a white bow tie. And a white vest. And you're wearing gloves. Men. Ooh. Yeah. And if you happen to be royal or like have a sash, put it on. Right.

00:22:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Like if you happen to be royal girl.

00:22:41 - Jenny GK
And you're listening to our show. Yeah. Wow. So women also optional long opera length gloves.

00:22:49 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:22:49 - Jenny GK
And this is where you take out the ground jewels. Don't wear plastic tiara.

00:22:55 - Caitlin Kindred
Jenny. Sorry.

00:22:57 - Jenny GK
I mean, no, you have to tell me this. Right. But costume jewelry, that is demure.

00:23:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Very mindful.

00:23:07 - Jenny GK
Mindful. Right? Yes. Is okay. Okay. But full evening dress, white tie. Like you know when you're going to this event that you're going to see someone fabulous?

00:23:21 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:23:22 - Jenny GK
Oh, that'd be amazing. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

00:23:26 - Caitlin Kindred
So what if you're the one hosting this event and you want to make sure that you're not being ambiguous because this is like my. This is where I would go wrong.

00:23:32 - Jenny GK
I like want to fix these things. Okay. Because we should not have to be defining. The host should be doing that for you.

00:23:40 - Caitlin Kindred
That's very true.

00:23:42 - Jenny GK
So don't be cute with backyard formal or Parisian semi casual or tropical black tie casual.

00:23:52 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay. Backyard formal means nothing.

00:23:54 - Jenny GK
Right.

00:23:54 - Caitlin Kindred
Because I am a hot mess in my backyard.

00:23:57 - Jenny GK
Right.

00:23:57 - Caitlin Kindred
So no, literally nothing.

00:24:00 - Jenny GK
Provide examples if you have a specific theme. Many years ago, John and I went to an event that was apresky formal. But the event in the invitation had pictures of outfits and it was. It was like you're putting on your cocktail dress and ski goggles or you're wearing.

00:24:23 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:24:24 - Jenny GK
Or you're wearing something with sequins and a puffer vest. Like it was a themed event and they gave photographic examples of what to wear.

00:24:33 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay, that's fine. I. Otherwise it's too cutesy for me. Like, I just don't understand. But also you could. I think it might be nice to just say what you're wearing in the event. Like I'm wearing my ugly Christmas sweater. Bring yours too. Right. Something like that. That would let people know kind of what you're going for here.

00:24:49 - Jenny GK
The other thing that you can do is give some specifics about the event that helps people decide. So if you're having a semi formal event and it's outside, state that semi formal garden party. Because that means that instead of me wearing a strapless cocktail dress, I'm going to put on something and a sweater because I'm going to be outside.

00:25:11 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, like my. Yeah, my tea length dress and my sweater that will go with it. Okay, I gotcha.

00:25:17 - Jenny GK
Use in. Use language in your invitation that reflects the formality of the event. Okay.

00:25:23 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:25:24 - Jenny GK
Join us for a family barbecue versus the honor of your presence is requested.

00:25:30 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, yeah, that's awful.

00:25:32 - Jenny GK
Okay, let's ring in the new year together versus Please join us as we elegantly ring in the new year.

00:25:40 - Caitlin Kindred
Elegantly was. Is my key there. I know that I need to dress a little bit more formally than I would. Yeah.

00:25:45 - Jenny GK
Let's bring in the new year together. I'm coming in my sweatpants. No, not really. But, like, I know that this is.

00:25:51 - Caitlin Kindred
A. I'm coming in really casual. Yeah.

00:25:54 - Jenny GK
Because I have to stay until.

00:25:54 - Caitlin Kindred
Jeans and a sweater. Exactly.

00:25:56 - Jenny GK
But please join us as we elegantly ring in the new year. Like. Okay, I'll put on heels. That's fine. Sure.

00:26:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:26:03 - Jenny GK
So the deal is, all of this was a waste of your time because really, what you need to do when you have a question about the dress code is take that social risk and ask the host. And if you know someone else going to the event who is tighter with the host than you are, make them ask and say, hey, Caitlin, what are you wearing?

00:26:25 - Caitlin Kindred
What's the goal? Yeah, what's the goal for the party? Are we supposed to. Yeah, exactly.

00:26:28 - Jenny GK
If it is an event such as a fundraiser, that happens year after year. Stock that stuff, get online and look and see what people wore last year.

00:26:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Go find pictures. For sure.

00:26:40 - Jenny GK
So anyway, you can do this. Have lots of fun at these parties or. I'm sorry that you have to go to a party. Either way, but I love it. Let's take a break.

00:26:52 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. For links to resources mentioned in this episode, head on over to ckngkpodcast.com blog to find everything you need. And be sure to follow us on social media. Head over to your favorite social media network and find us at CKNGK Podcast. And now back to the show.

00:27:14 - Jenny GK
Okay, so besides holiday dress code, tropical black tie, formal casual, ridiculous business, what are your obsessions right now?

00:27:28 - Caitlin Kindred
My son is finally old enough to enjoy watching Harry Potter. So we have been watching it as a family, like, in small chunks, right? Like it's evening time or whatever. But we're watching. We're watching the Harry Potter movies together. Like, at night. He's like, can we watch it? Can we watch? And he's getting really into it now. The hard part for me is that he wants to ask, like, he's like, me, and he just needs to know what's going to happen next. And I'm like, just watch him. Like, but he. So he has to ask over and over again. But it's really fun to have him be into it. And he knows he has the books. My brother. My son's uncle has gotten him those really gorgeous, huge illustrated versions of Harry Potter, and he, like, hasn't started reading them yet. But I think him being interested in the story is going to really help him be excited about the books, too. So I'm pretty stoked. Like, he's. He's really happy. And the fun part, actually, is that Bryce, my husband, if you're new to the show, that's my husband's name. He has never seen, really, any of the movies. It's not really, like, the. Kind of fantastical is really not his thing. Like, he just can't get into it. But he started watching with us for the first one, and he's like, okay, these are. I get. I get why people really like them. So that's been. It's been really fun. So I wouldn't say it's my obsession, but it is really fun to sit together as a family and watch these movies.

00:28:59 - Jenny GK
Have you guys been to the Harry Potter forest?

00:29:01 - Caitlin Kindred
No, but that came up on my Instagram feed.

00:29:04 - Jenny GK
Okay.

00:29:05 - Caitlin Kindred
And now I want to take it.

00:29:06 - Jenny GK
Okay. Yes. It looks pretty legit. And it's at McKinney Ruffs, which was my first camp job.

00:29:15 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. And isn't it, like, 45 minutes away from the center of town?

00:29:18 - Jenny GK
Like, it's super easy to get. Very easy to get to. And there's plenty of parking, so.

00:29:23 - Caitlin Kindred
Perfect. See, I'm gonna try and make it happen. That would be a really, like, fun thing to do. Like, a holiday thing to do.

00:29:28 - Jenny GK
Right.

00:29:28 - Caitlin Kindred
You know what I mean? I just think it'd be great. So I'm gonna look into that for him.

00:29:32 - Jenny GK
Okay. So a couple weeks ago, I was really into this book, Disappearing Spoon, and I'm still on a science kick, so I am watching every video by learning curve on YouTube. They're at learning curve Science, and they, like, break down plank everything. What is plank time? What is plank distance? What is plank mass? And I'm watching it, and my husband is making fun of me the entire time.

00:29:56 - Caitlin Kindred
I don't know what plank means in that context.

00:29:58 - Jenny GK
Okay. So it's like a scientist that named the smallest thing. And so the smallest distance is a plank distance. The smallest unit of time is the time that it takes light to travel that distance, and it's a plank time. And so everything is measured. The smallest unit that we have is plank. Now, I'm saying this, and I'm sure there's a physicist out there probably not listening to me. That's like, no, it's not the smallest. I'm sure there's something else. Okay, yeah. From what I know from videos.

00:30:30 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:30:31 - Jenny GK
And again, you know, I'm like, I love extreme math. Like, big numbers, small numbers. This is great.

00:30:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Extreme math.

00:30:41 - Jenny GK
Okay. I didn't realize how stupid it sounds.

00:30:43 - Caitlin Kindred
If we were naming the episodes off of dumb things we say, this episode would be called Extremely Math. What? Okay, okay, okay.

00:30:54 - Jenny GK
I, I, I enjoy learning about very large numbers and very small ones and extreme, extreme math.

00:31:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Such a nerd.

00:31:05 - Jenny GK
Okay, well, speaking of nerds, let me give you my gem.

00:31:08 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay?

00:31:09 - Jenny GK
My kid, like, really doesn't understand what we do at all, but he knows that we're nerdy, so he recently had a fever and we went and got some Pedialyte freezer pops.

00:31:23 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, those are the jam, right?

00:31:25 - Jenny GK
They're great.

00:31:26 - Caitlin Kindred
If you're not on board with those.

00:31:28 - Jenny GK
You should always have them in your freezer.

00:31:30 - Caitlin Kindred
You can and you can make them. You could take Pedialyte and just put.

00:31:32 - Jenny GK
It in a popsicle mold, but we didn't have any. So we picked up some more and John is giving him one and says, oh, a kit. This is made by the company I used to work for, which is Abbott, a medical device company.

00:31:50 - Caitlin Kindred
Medical device company.

00:31:52 - Jenny GK
They make Pedialyte, they make Enfamil, they make the COVID tests, the Binax. Now.

00:31:58 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, they make all kinds.

00:31:59 - Jenny GK
Yeah, they make all kinds of things now. John didn't work for that side of it. He worked for the neurological side where they do brain and spine stimulation. But still, same company, they make medical things.

00:32:11 - Caitlin Kindred
Right.

00:32:12 - Jenny GK
And kit. Really not understanding what we do for a living at all especially. I mean, I guess he gets like, I, I work at a school, but because he can, you know, reasonable. But for John, he just knows. He's like some kind of math nerd. Like, he doesn't really know what he does. And so he says, oh, kit. These are made by a company I used to work for. Kid goes, Chase Bank.

00:32:37 - Caitlin Kindred
I'm getting like, what is Chandler Bing's John Vibes first off, right?

00:32:42 - Jenny GK
John has never worked for Chase Bank. So not only is it, like, wrong, but it's like, really wrong, right?

00:32:48 - Caitlin Kindred
Like, never.

00:32:49 - Jenny GK
These are popsicles for sick kids. You think Chase bank makes these?

00:32:55 - Caitlin Kindred
Baby boy, I love him so much. He's the sweetest. He's so cute and so funny. I love little kids. No, honey, no. Well, where we're, we have a similar kind of gem where my son said something that was kind of well meaning. It was actually very well meaning. So here's what Happened. We're, we're in the throes of homework frustrations. At our house, we work on math homework during the week. His teachers, bless them, assign the homework on Fridays, and it's not due till the following Monday. So that means if you want to work on it over the weekend, you can, or you can just work on it during the week and then you turn it the following Monday. So not a big, Not a big deal. You get a lot of time to work on this. Um, so we choose to do, like, he's in third grade, no more than 30 minutes of homework at night. And, and that's my general rule for any grade level is 10 minutes of homework a night by a grade level. So if they're sixth graders, they should have 60 minutes of homework a night. And if it takes longer than that, then you need to have a conversation. Anyway, at one point, my son was feeling very frustrated with his math skills because he's the kind of person who, he thinks about the answer in kind of a roundabout way, but he also can't always put down on paper what he's doing, even though if you talk to him, it makes perfect sense what he's doing. Right. Like, you, you're like, oh, I see, you're just taking. Instead of making it $3.99, you're adding all the $3 together.

00:34:28 - Jenny GK
Yes.

00:34:28 - Caitlin Kindred
And then you're adding all the 99 cents together, and then you're gonna put, I. I see every. I see it all.

00:34:32 - Jenny GK
There's reason there. He's just having a hard time documenting it.

00:34:35 - Caitlin Kindred
Exactly. And for that reason, he kind of sort of has this moment where he doesn't really feel very smart. And so we've had these conversations of, like, it's not about being smart like, that you can't express this. It's. You are, you are a very bright kid who is very capable of learning. Your difficulty is staying calm when you feel frustrated and then telling us what you're thinking so that we can put it on the paper.

00:34:59 - Jenny GK
Right.

00:34:59 - Caitlin Kindred
That's where the issue is. And at one point, he said something that triggered my husband to say, like, you know, there are times where I don't feel very smart. It's just how I feel like. And I understand why you feel frustrated. And in response, Sam goes, dad, I love you, and I think you're smarter than you actually are. And the intention was beautiful. It was the most well intentioned comment. It just didn't come out the way it needed to. And Bryce Brussels Heart, he's like, thanks, buddy. I was like, just bless you. Like, it was so sweet. He really was just trying to say, like, danny, you're so smart, right? Like, I'm so proud of you. And it just came out.

00:35:51 - Jenny GK
And it's one of those moments where you're, like, biting your lips so that you don't laugh because that's not the response that's appropriate. But at the same time.

00:36:00 - Caitlin Kindred
Pretty sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. What I actually did was I had my hand on Bryce's back, and I just, like, kind of clenched my hand into a shirt. I was like, oh, my God.

00:36:08 - Jenny GK
Like.

00:36:09 - Caitlin Kindred
Like, just retract. Like, pulled my claws in to look like talons. And I was, like, holding onto his shirt. Like, if I. If I let go, I'm going to laugh because it was just so. It was such a beautiful moment. It just came out all wrong.

00:36:22 - Jenny GK
So funny.

00:36:24 - Caitlin Kindred
Love it.

00:36:25 - Jenny GK
Oh, man.

00:36:26 - Caitlin Kindred
All right, well. Okay.

00:36:27 - Jenny GK
When you're learning about extreme math and.

00:36:31 - Caitlin Kindred
You need to know how to dress for an event, make good choices. And you're probably smarter than I think you are, too. Bye.