00:00:01 - Jenny GK
Tuesday.

00:00:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, my. Was not ready. Loved it. Had the volume turned up really loud in my ears.

00:00:13 - Jenny GK
Amazing. Close to them.

00:00:14 - Caitlin Kindred
I. Yeah, you did. We're so glad you're here. Today. Jenny is telling me all the things I'm doing wrong at work. I mean, all the things we might be doing wrong at work and how to fix them. Yes.

00:00:28 - Jenny GK
Thanks, Pinterest, for telling me what I'm doing wrong.

00:00:32 - Caitlin Kindred
Anyone who says Pinterest is not a valuable tool anymore needs to stop talking, because it's definitely a valuable tool still.

00:00:41 - Jenny GK
I mean, I kind of still love it.

00:00:42 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:00:43 - Jenny GK
Great.

00:00:43 - Caitlin Kindred
Why not? It's great. All right.

00:00:46 - Jenny GK
Okay, so before we get started, we can call Caitlin my balance sheet, because I'm counting on her to help you with this episode.

00:00:56 - Caitlin Kindred
I like that. Very clever. Well, I don't have a clever one for you today. I'm just going to say that's Jenny, an assistant principal of middle school right now. I'm so excited for you.

00:01:09 - Jenny GK
Yes, I'm excited too. I'm excited, too.

00:01:12 - Caitlin Kindred
It's so great. Awesome. Before we start, I want to share a shout out. We got a five star review. This podcast is hilarious and feels like listening to a conversation with my friends. Great practical advice for adults. Still learning what that means.

00:01:30 - Jenny GK
Love it. Love it.

00:01:31 - Caitlin Kindred
I can't wait to binge all the episodes.

00:01:33 - Jenny GK
So am I.

00:01:34 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes. Thank you so much for that review. That's from Morgan Franklin Media. Appreciate you.

00:01:40 - Jenny GK
Awesome. Thank you.

00:01:42 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm.

00:01:43 - Jenny GK
Okay, so, like Caitlin said, I'm gonna be telling things that you're doing wrong at work. And, like, everybody already knows you're not supposed to be chronically late, not supposed to gossip. Don't put anything negative on your socials about your job or the people you work with. Like, duh. These are all things we already know.

00:01:59 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:02:01 - Jenny GK
So what I am presenting is unprofessional behaviors that are very common. And surprisingly, you might actually be doing some of them. And it always comes down to intent versus impact. Right. And yes, even if your heart is in the right place, you might still unintentionally send a different message to your team or your clients or your potential customers.

00:02:25 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, it's giving Michael Scott.

00:02:27 - Jenny GK
Yes. Yes, exactly.

00:02:30 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:02:31 - Jenny GK
Okay. So my first one comes from an article called seven things that brand you unprofessional by Liz Ryan. And it was posted on LinkedIn. And, you know, if it's on LinkedIn, it must be true.

00:02:44 - Caitlin Kindred
No, no, but this was good.

00:02:48 - Jenny GK
This was this. I pulled this one because I thought it was good.

00:02:51 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:02:53 - Jenny GK
She says, saying that we'll get back to you in a few days. To applicants, you are not gonna get back to them in a few days. You are not. So don't say it.

00:03:02 - Caitlin Kindred
No.

00:03:03 - Jenny GK
Just say, we'll be in contact.

00:03:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:03:06 - Jenny GK
Because in a few days, unless you're going to send them a message saying, hey, we're still thinking about you, and we haven't made a decision, if you say in a few days, that person is checking their email frantically, starting on the second day.

00:03:18 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:03:19 - Jenny GK
And they are hoping that they haven't missed a message from you on day three and on day four, you have broken their hearts. So if you want to establish a relationship with one of these potent. One of these applicants who is a potential employee, someone with whom you're trying to build a relationship, do not give a timeline on when you will be in contact.

00:03:40 - Caitlin Kindred
The whole you've broken their hearts thing is real. Like, there's a very intense movement on LinkedIn right now that is being pushed by people who are looking for work, and they're saying things like, stop ghosting me. Stop not talking to me. Like, ultimately, it's just mean. Right? Like, I don't like that. So if someone's actually still in your pipeline for a potential job, maybe it's worth it to send them a message, you know, in a week. Like, it's easy to take these applicants, filter them through your system, and then create a list of people that says, like, these are the ones who were considering. And then you just send them an email a week later that says, like, we're still thinking about you. We're still processing applications, because people who are applying for jobs more than likely need a new job need a job. So when you are saying in a few days and you don't get back to them, like, ew, just don't do that. I don't like that at all. I'm glad you brought that up. That's a big deal to me, especially as someone who was on a job hunt for months and applied everywhere. This is a hard one.

00:04:50 - Jenny GK
Okay. So my next one is from me.

00:04:52 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh.

00:04:53 - Jenny GK
It is not published, but this is one that, to me, really speaks about your character.

00:04:59 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:05:00 - Jenny GK
Registering and not attending an event.

00:05:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Be specific about the event, you mean.

00:05:07 - Jenny GK
Okay, now, here's the thing. A lot of times, especially if you are in a larger organization, there might be an opportunity to attend a webinar.

00:05:19 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:05:19 - Jenny GK
Or a workshop.

00:05:20 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:05:21 - Jenny GK
Or a pm social or something.

00:05:25 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm.

00:05:26 - Jenny GK
If you register for or you RSVP yes. For an event and you do not show it makes a statement to the host, whether you mean it to or not, unless you make a proper prior notification and say, I will not be attending this, my plans have changed. Life has happened. Whatever, whatever. If you just flake and don't attend, you've been noted as someone who is not as responsible as you want people to think you are.

00:06:00 - Caitlin Kindred
So I'm gonna push back on this just a tiny bit, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna say this is more important to me for in person events as opposed to webinars. And here's why I'm gonna say this. As someone who now works in marketing and has been behind the scenes for many webinars, to me, it was. The attendance rate does matter. Like, I want attendance. But just FYI, typical attendance for webinars in the roughly two and a half years I've been doing this hovers right around 20% to 35% for a lot of them. Right? So that's if you have ten registers.

00:06:42 - Jenny GK
How is that a statistic that we're accepting?

00:06:44 - Caitlin Kindred
Well, here. Well, for a couple of reasons, I market to educators. I know that things happen during the day and educators can't come. I get that. You know what I mean? Like, if we have an event at 11:00 in the morning, pacific time, that's right smack in the middle of the lunch hour, and maybe a principal can attend, but maybe they can't. So I'm okay if they register for the event and get the recording to watch later, right? Because I, as a marketer, I still have their contact information, and I can still reach out because I know there's an interest there that they want what I'm talking about. Okay, so there is that piece of this. What I'm not okay with is registering for an event that's an in person event where, especially if you had to be included in, like, numbers, and the number of attendees is not like, you know, in the multiple hundreds. If we're talking about, like, a less than 50 person in particular of. And you register, and then you don't show and you don't tell anyone that. I completely agree with you about that, to me, really says a lot about something, and things happen, and maybe the thing that happened is, honestly, today took every bit of my emotional capacity, and I just. I don't have it.

00:08:06 - Jenny GK
And you can just say, I've had a conflict, period.

00:08:08 - Caitlin Kindred
The end.

00:08:09 - Jenny GK
That's a sentence you don't have.

00:08:10 - Caitlin Kindred
You don't owe anyone additional explanation. You just say, something came up, and I can't, thank you anyway, and move on. But I agree with you there, but the webinar thing bothers me less.

00:08:19 - Jenny GK
Okay. I'm glad to know that.

00:08:21 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Only because, again, I market to educators, and sometimes things come up, or, I mean, and even as I attend webinars as a marketer, and I can't always attend because something comes up. And so I just want the recording to watch later. I'm okay with that. Again, because they still have my information. They can still contact me if they want to. They know that there's an interest there. But the in person ones is where I. I'm 100% on your side on that.

00:08:49 - Jenny GK
Now, I will say in my nonprofit work, when I tell a presenter that we're going to have 40 people attend their workshop, even if it's online, and 15 come.

00:08:59 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:09:00 - Jenny GK
Not only does that speak about the people who did not come, it also says something about my nonprofit.

00:09:04 - Caitlin Kindred
I would agree with that. And I also. I will preface things by saying, and now, granted, I'm a little spoiled because I'm in the education space, and everyone who's in these webinars understands that in education, there are actual things that require your immediate attention. Right. So I tell them, you know my presenters, hey, please don't be put off by the number of attendees. It's not about the attendees. It's about the watches after the fact. And that number is usually in this range. And I have a number that I can tell people based on a baseline. Right. I can say this many, but, yeah, I. The in person ones. It's hard. It's hard.

00:09:47 - Jenny GK
Just. Just reach out.

00:09:49 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Agree.

00:09:51 - Jenny GK
Even if it's after the event has started, just send a message.

00:09:54 - Caitlin Kindred
I'm sorry I can't make it. Yeah.

00:09:57 - Jenny GK
Preferably beforehand. But if not, at least acknowledge that you're not there.

00:10:01 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:10:02 - Jenny GK
Okay. And kind of on the heels of this from the ten most unprofessional work behaviors by Kate Lopez.

00:10:15 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:10:16 - Jenny GK
Confusing a work social for a social social.

00:10:20 - Caitlin Kindred
In person event.

00:10:22 - Jenny GK
In person event.

00:10:23 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay, got it.

00:10:25 - Jenny GK
Work social versus social social. Now, can you go out with your colleagues for a social social? Absolutely. Exclamation point at the end. But if this is a work event, as in, it is hosted by your company, the company is picking up the bill, or someone in a supervisory capacity has invited you. It is now a work event, and you need to be on your work behavior.

00:10:52 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm. Give yourself a drink limit or be sober.

00:10:56 - Jenny GK
Yes. Make sure that your conversation is one that you would have in front of the water cooler as well as at the table.

00:11:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm. It will come back to bite you.

00:11:09 - Jenny GK
Representing your company at that point?

00:11:11 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm. 100%.

00:11:12 - Jenny GK
Now, if you are on a team that says, hey, let's go grab a burger after work today, and the team goes, and then you also say, hey, why don't we invite so and so supervisor? That's fine. It is not a work event. You might have someone in a supervisory capacity there. You are going to want to mind the fact that your boss is at the table. Keep that in mind. But also know that you're not at work at this point. You invited them, right? Yep. But just keep in mind that people remember who you are outside the office or the building or whatever it is that you work when they see you the next day.

00:11:59 - Caitlin Kindred
The line we hire for skills and fire for behavior is one that has always stuck with me.

00:12:06 - Jenny GK
Oh, that's good.

00:12:07 - Caitlin Kindred
And it is real, and a lot of it. The behavior you'll see in the workplace. But you see a decent amount of it out of the workplace, too. I'm not saying don't have a workplace bestie. Obviously, that relationship would not have worked out for me. For you and I. No, but I am saying that anytime you open your mouth about anything at work, you better make sure that the people around you are not people not working. Yeah. Yeah. You need to be able to trust these people. Yep. Exactly.

00:12:42 - Jenny GK
Yeah.

00:12:43 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm.

00:12:44 - Jenny GK
And then the friend comes first, and then coworker is the next label.

00:12:48 - Caitlin Kindred
Right, exactly. Mm hmm. Because if it's co worker, then friend. No.

00:12:53 - Jenny GK
Yeah.

00:12:54 - Caitlin Kindred
Mind. Mind your behavior. Mind what you say and mind what you do. For sure.

00:12:58 - Jenny GK
Okay, the next one is big.

00:13:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay, ready?

00:13:03 - Jenny GK
Perpetuating microaggressions. Now, this comes from an editorial on biospace, and it's the ten bad yet surprisingly common workplace habits to drop ASAP.

00:13:18 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:13:20 - Jenny GK
And I stole a couple from this list. Cause I thought it was pretty great. But one of the things that they highlight in this microaggressions portion is it's not just the microaggressions that we think of at the forefront about people of color or other marginalized groups. It is groups that we don't necessarily think of. And it might be something as simple as scheduling a major event on a major holiday that is for faith other than Christianity.

00:13:57 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, yeah.

00:13:59 - Jenny GK
Don't hire a work. I don't plan a work dinner on Yom Kippur.

00:14:02 - Caitlin Kindred
No, no.

00:14:05 - Jenny GK
If you can avoid a working lunch during Ramadan, try.

00:14:09 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah.

00:14:11 - Jenny GK
Consider other major world holidays when you're building out your calendar.

00:14:17 - Caitlin Kindred
Yep.

00:14:17 - Jenny GK
Otherwise, you are unintentionally sending a message that those holidays don't matter to you.

00:14:22 - Caitlin Kindred
There's a way to fix this, by the way, if you have a Google based calendar or, I mean, they also make them for all of the calendaring programs, you can subscribe to religious holiday calendars and have them show up on your calendar. I have. On my. On my work calendar, I have, like, social media holidays, you know, like, National Hot Dog Day, National Emoji Day, which we're coincidentally both in July. But I. I also have major religious holidays of other faiths on my calendar because we work with clients all over the world. But also, I work in education, and I can't, with confidence, like, tell people not to, you know what I mean? We have to honor children of all faiths. It's just how it has to be. So I highly recommend subscribing to one of those, Orlando, all of them, if you can, and just making sure that they're on your radar for this kind of behavior. But you said there could be other ones that were even smaller, so I'm sure that's not small, but I'm curious with the smaller one.

00:15:35 - Jenny GK
But here is another one that really stuck out to me. There is a big difference between demanding that the more quiet employee speak at the table or inviting the more quiet employee to speak at the table, saying, Caitlin, I haven't hurt you. Do you have an opinion on this? I'd love to hear what you think. That is very different than Caitlin. Are you gonna talk about this? We haven't heard you.

00:16:00 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think even this just comes down to knowing the people in your workplace a little bit as humans as opposed to coworkers. Right. Like, if you know that there's someone who is gonna stay quiet during meetings but definitely has an opinion and just feels more comfortable sharing them after they've had a moment to process and then send an email, like, you can, you know, invite that also. But just. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of.

00:16:29 - Jenny GK
Again, that behavior comes down to that intent versus impact.

00:16:33 - Caitlin Kindred
Right.

00:16:34 - Jenny GK
When you invite someone into a conversation, you are also giving them the opportunity to decline the invitation.

00:16:41 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, totally true.

00:16:43 - Jenny GK
Whereas when you put someone on the spot, they have now made this space, it's unsafe for them.

00:16:50 - Caitlin Kindred
I love that.

00:16:51 - Jenny GK
And the next time that you are facilitating a meeting, they are going to go in with hesitancy, rather than feeling empowered and saying, this person cares about what I think.

00:16:59 - Caitlin Kindred
Right. You haven't made them go into the next meeting and think, I'm going to be ready to answer a question. Instead, they're thinking, oh, my God, I'm going to get called on. Oh, my God, what am I going to say? And they're going to not be able to absorb what you're talking about anyway, so I love that. I think that's a great one. There are lots of microaggressions that are not related to race or religious background or other marginalized groups. But I would highly recommend telling someone point blank, listen, if this is a behavior that I have done that, or I'm intentional about making sure my behavior is not going to be hurtful to anyone, and should I do something that is hurtful, please do tell me, because I want to fix that behavior. I think that there's a lot of welcome ness in that, right? Like, yeah. Oh, man. Well, okay, what's the next one?

00:17:54 - Jenny GK
Kind of on the same idea. It's the opposite of demanding information, being dismissive. The first rule of brainstorming is deferring judgment. And like you mentioned last week, it is possible that the judgment is still happening in your brain and on your face, even if you're not saying it.

00:18:17 - Caitlin Kindred
So be mindful, Caitlin.

00:18:19 - Jenny GK
Be mindful of all your nonverbal communication. You might think it's the worst idea ever. You might think, oh, my goodness, this is going to cause the world to light on fire. But you can just acknowledge that they said that, oh, okay, that's an idea. And you don't have to say, wow, that's a terrible idea, and it's yucky, and the world's gonna light on fire if we do that. You can just say, okay, thanks, and add it to the list, or not. But being dismissive sets a tone for other people in the room. They are now going to be shy about sharing their own ideas. It also creates a dynamic between you and that person that they don't feel safe sharing ideas with you. Now, of course, if someone makes an off the wall comment that has changed the whole feeling of the room or has, you know, created some tension, of course those kinds of things need to be addressed in the moment. But when you are dismissive of ideas in a brainstorming session, you have just changed that brainstorming session into trying to impress you.

00:19:29 - Caitlin Kindred
Or I. What's the point of this brainstorming session if my. If every idea is going to be shot down or if the first idea gets shot down? Right, like, that's. I. Can I just say, I'm not a fan of oral brainstorming sessions anyway, because to me, it feels like a lot of pressure.

00:19:50 - Jenny GK
Yeah.

00:19:50 - Caitlin Kindred
Um, I would much rather have someone say, hey, at this meeting, we're going to be sharing ideas for XYZ.

00:20:00 - Jenny GK
If you could come in with your.

00:20:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Come in with ideas or. No, I mean, people don't do their homework, right? Like, let's be clear, adults are terrible about doing homework, but, like, saying someone come in with your ideas, or, like, that feels a little bit pressurey, too. But maybe saying, like, this is what we're going to be discussing. I'd love to hear what thoughts you have on anything related to the matter. We'll share them anonymously or something. Something like that. So that people come in, you have a stack of paper, you just let them write it out, and then you pull from there, and then it's a non threatening way to do that. Right. But I also think there's something to be said about being dismissive. Not just about brainstorming, but just about how people feel about things. Right. You said it's impact versus intent. Right. Maybe you didn't intend to offend someone, but the impact was that you did. And telling them that they don't feel that way is not okay, and it's gonna get you in trouble in the workplace anyway. So you might as well acknowledge and not dismiss that.

00:21:05 - Jenny GK
Right?

00:21:05 - Caitlin Kindred
As well, right? Like, yeah, again, hire for skills to fire for behavior. So if you act like a jerk and then you dismiss the fact that you acted like a jerk to someone when they come to you about it, it's easy to get defensive, but it's just as easy to say, like, I didn't realize I made you feel that way. Can I have a moment to process?

00:21:24 - Jenny GK
I'm so sorry.

00:21:25 - Caitlin Kindred
Right? Can I have a moment to process even if you don't? Yeah, like, anything. I don't know. Just putting that out there. What else we got here?

00:21:32 - Jenny GK
So the next one also comes from this biospace editorial that I. I saw this and I was like, wow, they wrote this, right? For me. It's like, okay, jen, this is. This is definitely about you.

00:21:45 - Caitlin Kindred
Hmm.

00:21:46 - Jenny GK
It says, apologizing for your ideas. So saying things, oh, my gosh, this might be a bad idea, but. I know this sounds crazy, but this might be stupid, but you're literally telling the people in the room that you don't believe in yourself. Why should they? You are literally labeling your idea as bad. This could be a bad idea. Why would you say that about something that you're gonna share out? It's like when kids are running for student council and they say, can we vote for ourselves? Like, if you don't think you're the best person for the job. Why are you running? Of course you can vote for yourself. Yes. Do not tell people that your ideas are dumb before you say them. Let them decide that on their own, and hopefully they won't say it with their face. Right.

00:22:36 - Caitlin Kindred
This feels like it's especially targeted to women. Can I just say that women, it's a way of, you know, why we do it. It's a way of softening ideas. It's a way of not.

00:22:47 - Jenny GK
And protecting ourselves from.

00:22:49 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes. Men's. What's the word? I'm thinking from the men's.

00:22:54 - Jenny GK
No. Rejection.

00:22:57 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes, it's a way of soft.

00:22:58 - Jenny GK
If I reject my idea first, then you hurt when you.

00:23:01 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, when you do it, you can't hurt me. Exactly. But it is a. It is like the whole. I think they've done a study about when women speak and women are more likely to use things like, does that make sense? Or do you see what I'm saying? Or just clarify that. Yes. These are things that women say more often because it softens what we're asking for. Right. I just did it. This is along those lines. So it goes back to just honoring, you know, if you're good at your job, you.

00:23:36 - Jenny GK
Well, also, are you gonna say something that you think is stupid?

00:23:41 - Caitlin Kindred
Maybe I do, but I don't say something. Right.

00:23:46 - Jenny GK
If you thought I'm stupid, first you don't say it.

00:23:48 - Caitlin Kindred
No. No.

00:23:50 - Jenny GK
Afterwards you might be like, wow, that was really dumb. I don't know why I said that.

00:23:52 - Caitlin Kindred
Right. Or when I. It might not always be related. Like, my issue is that, like, I'll find a connection to something else, and then I'll be like, this might not be related, but it does make me think of this. Is there a way we can tie them together? Might be a better way of doing that? As opposed to, this might be a bad idea.

00:24:08 - Jenny GK
Just starting with this might be a bad idea. I mean, all I hear is, wow, the person thinks it's not good. I definitely am not going to spend my time on that.

00:24:17 - Caitlin Kindred
That goes back to sharing in a safe space. Right. Like, why not make it a situation where nobody has to take ownership of an idea until later? Like, this was my idea. Thanks for using it. But if they don't want to claim it, they don't have to. Yeah, I like that one. That's a good one.

00:24:35 - Jenny GK
Okay, now here's the last one. And I really wanted to stay away from this one.

00:24:39 - Caitlin Kindred
Uh oh.

00:24:40 - Jenny GK
But multiple sites, multiple lists had this on there. And I figure if it's showing up this many times it needs to be addressed.

00:24:49 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay.

00:24:50 - Jenny GK
Okay. Dress and grooming.

00:24:55 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh.

00:24:56 - Jenny GK
Which I know can be a really divisive topic because different workplaces have very different expectations.

00:25:05 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:25:07 - Jenny GK
Okay. One school I taught at, I wore t shirt and shorts and sandals every day because we went outside and we spent a lot of time in nature and we dressed for the job.

00:25:16 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:25:17 - Jenny GK
I'm an assistant principal now. I cannot be wearing t shirt and shorts every single day to work. And chocos and chocolate. I got the tan. I'm really proud of myself.

00:25:26 - Caitlin Kindred
Nice.

00:25:27 - Jenny GK
But here's the thing. The basic take home message from every place that I saw this addressed was just adhere to the culture.

00:25:37 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay?

00:25:38 - Jenny GK
If you are underdressed, inappropriately dressed, or following different hygiene standards than the people with whom you immediately work, that is sending a message, whether you mean for it to or not. Okay, you are sending a message. Now, the first message might be, I'm totally oblivious to how I'm supposed to be appearing at this position. I mean, that could be the first one, dear. But unfortunately, this day and age, we actually don't start with, wow. That person is totally oblivious. We start with, wow. That person doesn't care.

00:26:17 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, well, and.

00:26:19 - Jenny GK
And that is a cultural issue that we. That we go to judgment. But unfortunately, that is unintentionally the impact that improper dress and grooming sends. And I'm sorry, I really did not want to cover this one, but it just. It's everywhere. And it's really. It just comes down to notice the culture of your workplace and adhere to it in a way that honors who you are.

00:26:49 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, there's a lot of this, again, on LinkedIn that, especially for people who work from home. Like, I've seen some pretty inappropriate commentary on, like, women who wear makeup versus women who don't when they work from home. Or, like, women who are dressed a certain way during the summer. Like, if their kids are home, it's a lot harder to. If your kids are home. I mean, anyone who's a parent can tell you, like, getting in a shower is a struggle some days, right? Like, if. And so if you look a mess, I mean, you probably did the best you could that day, right? Like, they're just. That's just how it is. Ooh, I just hit my microphone. So, given the work from home culture, I think also there's an element of understanding that needs to be in place, too. Like, if there's someone who is regularly put together from the shoulders up and they work from home, and then they have a day where they don't have makeup on or whatever it may be. That's not a issue to address. That's not a sending a message kind of thing that you need to be harping on them for. That is a. This person's having some sort of day, and maybe I should check in on this person. Right. That's very different from the person who regularly is not adhering to the grooming standards of the company. Right. Like, I see what you're saying. I think this is a very fine line. And I also think that you can be professional without wearing makeup. You can be a professional person without wearing a suit and tie or a skirt suit all the time. Right. There are ways to do this.

00:28:36 - Jenny GK
Or being a man with long hair.

00:28:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Right there. Right.

00:28:39 - Jenny GK
These things can be true.

00:28:41 - Caitlin Kindred
They all can be true.

00:28:43 - Jenny GK
The only thing I could summarize from all the places I read this was, notice your workplace culture.

00:28:50 - Caitlin Kindred
Right. And if everyone else is showing up in a bathrobe and a coffee mug, well, hey, you got it made, right? Like, that's great. Yeah.

00:28:58 - Jenny GK
But if you don't like wearing a bathroom, bringing a coffee mug, you can overdress. Nothing wrong in your swimsuit.

00:29:07 - Caitlin Kindred
No, exactly. There's. Yeah, I see what you're saying. This is a. This is a tough one. And I also think it's. It has the potential to get very tricky to have conversations about this. So I think it's just. It requires a level of self awareness. Yeah. Yeah. It does require a level of self awareness. You have to be. Yeah. Into. All right, well, I like those. I think those are some good takeaways. So making sure you mind how you look, or at least mind the workplace culture. Don't apologize for your ideas. Don't dismiss ideas. Don't perpetuate microaggressions. Mind your behavior in the workplace. Work social versus social social. Registering for events and not attending as a. As a representative of a particular place of business. And lying to applicants about your timeline for hiring. Yeah. All. All work. I like them. All great ones.

00:30:06 - Jenny GK
All right, let's take a quick break. All right, we're back.

00:30:15 - Caitlin Kindred
We are.

00:30:15 - Jenny GK
It's time for us to talk about what we're obsessed with.

00:30:17 - Caitlin Kindred
Okay. Do it. You start.

00:30:20 - Jenny GK
So I am obsessed with take me home. It is the new romance novel from nationally bestselling author Melanie Sweeney.

00:30:32 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh.

00:30:34 - Jenny GK
That's her debut novel, Melanie. And she is my college roommate. We lived together for three years.

00:30:41 - Caitlin Kindred
Oh, my goodness.

00:30:42 - Jenny GK
Maid of honors. This is a really big deal. She has been working towards this as long as I've known her.

00:30:49 - Caitlin Kindred
And before then, this is so great. Congratulations, Melannie. That's so exciting.

00:30:56 - Jenny GK
I already finished it. It's so good. It is definitely spicy. Yes. And what is hilarious is, as I am reading it, I am reading it in her voice, in my head. So by the third page, I'm already texting her and saying, oh, my gosh, I'm dying. Like, the main character put Swiss Miss chocolate hot chocolate powder in her coffee. And I told Mallory, I was like, I am already back at that tiny little apartment behind Walmart in college station, watching you bring down the big tub of hot chocolate mix and pour it into your coffee.

00:31:32 - Caitlin Kindred
That's amazing. Oh, my gosh. Oh, I love that. What a relatable piece of information, by the way. Like, yes, this is not my obsession yet, but it will be. But I have to also piggyback off of this. Congratulations, Melanie. In case you didn't know, our friend of the show, Ariella, has also published her second piece. So her first piece is the novella that I've already read. The second piece is called radio romance, and it's out already. And the COVID is gorgeous. And I'm just. I'm happy for her. She's out promoting it as much as possible. So if you don't follow her, find Ariella, Monty. On all the places, preferably not Facebook. I don't think that's her fave. But. But find her, and I can find her too. But we're all. We'll link to both of those books. That's so exciting. Congratulations to Melanie. I love that your nationally best selling book is out. That's so great. Oh, okay. Well, speaking of, I know what a national bestseller. Yeah.

00:32:42 - Jenny GK
Like, let me make this about me for just a minute.

00:32:45 - Caitlin Kindred
Right? You're famous. We're gonna capitalize off of her fame for our show. She needs to go ahead and hype us up a little bit. If you could do that, Melanie, ASAP, that'd be great. Much less. Okay, so mine is an Instagram account that makes me happy. And this is not a silly one like the one that I'll be sharing later on this in an episode. But this is not one of the ones that just makes me crack up. This one is when, as the world burns around us. I need this one. This is called at tiny kindnesses. It's curated by someone named Rachel Eliza Hunt. I believe she's located in Brisbane, Australia. And I've linked to it in Australia. Yeah, me too. Linked to it in the blog post for this episode. But it is full of, like, little happy moments, things like one of them that I read was a doctor who was helping a patient with some sort of abdominal surgery and then at the same time, noticed that her appendix was inflamed and said, like, this is probably a recurring issue for you. Is it okay with you if I go ahead and take this out and I won't charge you for it? Whoa. Things like that. Right? And then this one that I had to screenshot because I love it because you and I are both wearing our glasses right now. It says, people with glasses are so cute. Like, wow, not only are your eyes beautiful, but I get to see them framed like an art display.

00:34:14 - Jenny GK
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

00:34:15 - Caitlin Kindred
Like, what? That's so cute. It's just little cute moments, and I love this account so much for the work that she's doing. Thank you, Rachel. Eliza, I'm sure you don't listen to the show, but I don't care because I love it.

00:34:28 - Jenny GK
Tag you in it.

00:34:29 - Caitlin Kindred
We're going to tag you.

00:34:30 - Jenny GK
You're going to wonder what we tagged you in.

00:34:31 - Caitlin Kindred
Well, I've already shared some of her stuff to our stories because I just love it so much. And she did message and say, like, oh, thank you for sharing. I'm like, I love your account. It's so cute. So go follow that one if you need a little life. Happy. It's really nice.

00:34:46 - Jenny GK
Okay, here comes my gem of the week.

00:34:50 - Caitlin Kindred
Ready?

00:34:51 - Jenny GK
First off, I like being a mom.

00:34:53 - Caitlin Kindred
Mm hmm.

00:34:55 - Jenny GK
But I think that when I'm a grandma, things are gonna be, like, amazing.

00:34:59 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Okay.

00:35:00 - Jenny GK
Because I'm gonna do stuff like this. Oh, I saw this lady on the Webbernet who has a grandma ranking system.

00:35:10 - Caitlin Kindred
Stop it.

00:35:11 - Jenny GK
Grandkids.

00:35:11 - Caitlin Kindred
No.

00:35:12 - Jenny GK
Yes.

00:35:13 - Caitlin Kindred
This is.

00:35:13 - Jenny GK
She has. She has, like, one of those top ten board.

00:35:20 - Caitlin Kindred
No.

00:35:22 - Jenny GK
Okay. Like Wayne and Garth had or David Letterman.

00:35:27 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:35:27 - Jenny GK
You would, like, pull number nine. Yeah. So she has that mounted on her.

00:35:32 - Caitlin Kindred
Wall, and she's ranking the grandkids plaques.

00:35:35 - Jenny GK
The kids name, and she slides them around based on things that they do in their lives.

00:35:41 - Caitlin Kindred
This is amazing and horrible.

00:35:43 - Jenny GK
And so, like, I saw the video was this guy came and visited his grandma and had a new tattoo, and she moved him to the bottom.

00:35:52 - Caitlin Kindred
Listen, if I'm not being a little judgmental when I'm at my grandma face, I don't even want it. I don't want it. So I kind of like it, but I also sort of loved it.

00:36:02 - Jenny GK
And all of her grandkids are, like, teens and adults, right?

00:36:06 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes. There you go. It's. It's.

00:36:07 - Jenny GK
And I died. I was like, yes. Yes. I'm totally doing this.

00:36:12 - Caitlin Kindred
When?

00:36:12 - Jenny GK
I might even build one for my mom right now.

00:36:17 - Caitlin Kindred
As long as she understands you can't use it for the five year old. And you guys have itty bitty babies right now in your life. Like, you can't. You have to wait till they're older to use it.

00:36:26 - Jenny GK
Yes.

00:36:26 - Caitlin Kindred
So that they understand it's a joke. Right? Oh, my gosh.

00:36:30 - Jenny GK
Which is so fun. Like, oh, so and so had a baby. You get slid up.

00:36:34 - Caitlin Kindred
Like, you pierced your belly button down. That's a downgrade. You missed my birthday. Definitely a downgrade for you. No. Okay, well, mine is my child's. I think I might be raising a little old man. I'm not sure, but the other day, he was like, mom, I know. I know what will make dad really happy. I know. I know. What? What? We can all watch together as a family. I was like, okay.

00:37:06 - Jenny GK
He told me it was like a Lego show or something.

00:37:08 - Caitlin Kindred
No. He turns to my husband and he says, dad, can we watch house hunters? Yes, we can. Absolutely, we can. And my husband's like, yeah, do you want to watch, like, the ones in America, or do you want to watch the ones around the world? And sam's like, around the world?

00:37:29 - Jenny GK
That's amazing.

00:37:29 - Caitlin Kindred
Basically, we're traveling and learning about, you.

00:37:31 - Jenny GK
Know, I am eight. I make no money, right? And my budget is two and a half a million dollars.

00:37:38 - Caitlin Kindred
Right. My mom raises dogs, and I. Yeah. I collect Lego figurines. My budget is 2.5 million. Like.

00:37:48 - Jenny GK
But we'll go ahead and look at the house that's three, two and probably buy it.

00:37:53 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Because it has all the things we want in the right location. And then we'll hear the x when you cross off the list.

00:38:01 - Jenny GK
Right, right.

00:38:02 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. So good.

00:38:03 - Jenny GK
Or we said we must have a pool, but we're gonna buy this house that's actually a condo with no pool.

00:38:09 - Caitlin Kindred
Like, what? Right? I didn't want a pool, but my husband really did. And, you know, we moved here to appease him, so I guess he gets to have a pool. Like, it just the weirdest. But it was really funny. He. And he'll sit there and make commentary. That house is terrible. Why would you choose that one? What? You have to go up three flights of stairs. Uh uh. We're not doing that. All right, man. He gets it. This kid gets it.

00:38:31 - Jenny GK
We started watching the acolyte, the new star show.

00:38:37 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:38 - Jenny GK
Kate calls it star horse.

00:38:39 - Caitlin Kindred
Yes.

00:38:40 - Jenny GK
It's good.

00:38:41 - Caitlin Kindred
Is it? I will. I'll have to start. We're still in the middle of house hunters. We've got about 8000 more episodes to go. Yeah.

00:38:48 - Jenny GK
And they crank them out, so there's always gonna be new ones.

00:38:51 - Caitlin Kindred
Well, and you can find it on Max now too, just so you know. Yeah. In case you need it.

00:38:57 - Jenny GK
Well, you can find us on all the places that you pod. And if you have not yet reviewed us on those, it would be great if you did. We're gonna see you next week. It'll be our, I guess, two weeks episode.

00:39:09 - Caitlin Kindred
Yeah. Two weeks. Yeah.

00:39:10 - Jenny GK
Next episode is season finale. So.

00:39:13 - Caitlin Kindred
Can you believe it? Season three finale is coming wild.

00:39:18 - Jenny GK
Okay, it's my turn making choices and.

00:39:22 - Caitlin Kindred
Don'T do stupid stuff at work. Yeah. Okay.

00:39:25 - Jenny GK
Yeah. Bye.